APTA-2048
Senior Member
You’re way overthinking this.
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asey20
Active Member
No, quite the opposite actually. I think we should add infill stations to line 1 and 2 so I can hit each strip mall on the route.
Jokes aside, some stops don't need to exist on the eastern portion of line 5. Otherwise we get a rapid transit line in the eastern portion that is only rapid during rush hour, but a streetcar during every other time. That's not great.
asey20
Active Member
I agree. So perhaps the best would be for line 6 to be a streetcar line instead. But I digress and will leave it at that.
ctf5650
New Member
Changing Line 6 to a streetcar line on the maps would actually be to the detriment of riders, as all the individual stop names would be removed in line with the other 5xx routes. Also the average Torontonian or tourist cares much less than you think they do about the specifics of the train they are riding in. The vast majority of people who see the 6 roundel on a map and show up and see it runs at grade will not care. In addition, using subway-style branding should make the off-board payment at surface stops slightly less confusing as it is in line with subway standards.
T3G
Senior Member
Under what circumstances would a tourist who is not a railbuff need to use line 6?
On opening day, I observed that vehicles on the eastern section were doing upwards of 40 km/h in some segments (presumably they'd be able to go even faster, if there was TSP) and upwards of 50 in between Sloane and O'Connor, and in between Golden Mile and Birchmount. Possibly others, too
Where, on the legacy streetcar network, can a vehicle reach a speed like this???? Line 5 has a lot of power that will be tapped when we can get TSP going.
nfitz
Superstar
asey20
Active Member
That's a fair point, but then maybe it's worth going the other way about it and making the necessary upgrades to Spadina, St. Clair, etc to have off-board payments, better shelters at stops, and actually appear on the map so people know where they are going. Once TSP is implemented, if this actually happens, on Spadina AND Line AND line 5 east section then what really makes them all that different besides the vehicles used?
EnviroTO
Senior Member
With traffic light priority Line 5 will perform excellently.
With traffic light priority and vehicles that run smoothly across the rails and don't require speed limits of 10 km/h all over the place Line 6 could perform excellently.
512 with signal priority could operate very well.
509 and 510 with signal priority would operate well.
Line 5 is rapid transit already. Line 6 could become rapid transit. 512, 509, and 510 will never be rapid transit.
Why? Because of intersection spacing, track build, and neighborhood pedestrian volumes. It would be simply too dangerous to run trams down the middle of downtown streets at high speed with pedestrians running across the street from behind parked cars, and tourists not looking where they are walking, especially with a track and wheel design that leads to less protection against derailment.
With traffic light priority and vehicles that run smoothly across the rails and don't require speed limits of 10 km/h all over the place Line 6 could perform excellently.
512 with signal priority could operate very well.
509 and 510 with signal priority would operate well.
Line 5 is rapid transit already. Line 6 could become rapid transit. 512, 509, and 510 will never be rapid transit.
Why? Because of intersection spacing, track build, and neighborhood pedestrian volumes. It would be simply too dangerous to run trams down the middle of downtown streets at high speed with pedestrians running across the street from behind parked cars, and tourists not looking where they are walking, especially with a track and wheel design that leads to less protection against derailment.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Streetcars/trams an LRTs can be equally fast and reliable and also equally the opposite.............they are what you make them.
Generally speaking, what separates streetcars/trams from LRT are the features of the vehicles themselves. The basic technology is the same but LRT vehicles have 3 main advantages over standard streetcar/trams that set them apart:
1} The vehicles can be joined together and not just articulated
2} LRT vehicles can be driven from both ends of the trains
3} LRT vehicles always have doors on each side of the train.
There are some exceptions of course but generally speaking if a train has ALL these features they are considered as LRT and if not, they are considered streetcar/trams.
Generally speaking, what separates streetcars/trams from LRT are the features of the vehicles themselves. The basic technology is the same but LRT vehicles have 3 main advantages over standard streetcar/trams that set them apart:
1} The vehicles can be joined together and not just articulated
2} LRT vehicles can be driven from both ends of the trains
3} LRT vehicles always have doors on each side of the train.
There are some exceptions of course but generally speaking if a train has ALL these features they are considered as LRT and if not, they are considered streetcar/trams.
nottoban
New Member
Perhaps this will solve the issue of what we call line 6: the cost to modify signage, plus the cost to pay Mosaic to do it, plus the premium Mosaic would charge to do it, plus the fee they'd charge to assess how much they'd charge for the change, would put this probably over a million, and there was already a few times more than that spent on changing the station ID signs at each of the stations due to reasons also not supported by a strong business case. There's no compelling reason to spend that kind of money unless it's part of a larger re-designating of various other lines which would be ill advised anyway.
hw621
Senior Member
Summary of the arguments.of the last few pages: grade separation.
81-717
Active Member
Tried L5 today from VP to DV, and later DV to Yonge. The above-ground section wasn't too bad, but it was annoying that it decided to stop at Swift dr. for no reason (no station there) despite there being a few seconds of green light remaining. On the second trip, I noticed transsee predictions initially appeared more accurate than for the real subway lines (refreshing the page does not reset back to 1:00 all over again, before refreshing straight to 0:00, but rather the countdown stays consistent, i.e. refreshing 0:33 continues the countdown where it left off), but turns out the arrival times were outright lying. A train was "due" to arrive at DV at 20:36:44, but in reality it finally showed up at 20:42, and transsee was still showing 1 min when the train started departing. It did seem to reach 50 or 60, but not 80 (is 80 ever supposed to happen in service, or only during testing?), and while it didn't feel overly fast, I had a hard time imagining it going that fast in mixed traffic with cars going at the same speed.
Apparently some of them even have parallel tram & subway lines shadowing eachother. So maybe we can, in the indefinite future none of us will ever live to see, build a real subway line underneath the existing line 5.
It's faster to take the 504 from Yonge to University than line 1 from King to St. Andrew? I doubt it, but what do I know.
Why would it be more rapid during rush hour than off-peak? Shouldn't it be rather the opposite?
Under the circumstances that they are bright enough to know Toronto exists north of Bloor (I, on the other hand, could never believe Toronto exists south of York Mills or Sheppard, let alone its southern border sitting on the shore of a lake 10x its size!), and if they're coming from abroad, they surely must know that the world is way bigger than that.
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A 6264
Active Member
Johnny Au
Superstar
February 11, 2026:
Part 1:
Avenue Station Secondary Entrance Fare-Paid Zone:
Part 2: Avenue Station Secondary Entrance Stairwell will be up tomorrow.
ETA: It will be interesting.
Part 1:
Avenue Station Secondary Entrance Fare-Paid Zone:
Part 2: Avenue Station Secondary Entrance Stairwell will be up tomorrow.
ETA: It will be interesting.
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Steve X
Senior Member
Going down wasn’t bad but people seem to avoid it. I can pretty much bet all these secondary exits will be very lightly used.