Toronto History Music Venue | ?m | 2s | Live Nation | Arcadis

Cineplex, under the current management has done more to deter regular moving going in general than I ever would have thought possible.

To be sure, streaming has hit the business, and the pandemic wasn't kind, but Cineplex has by wilful ignorance driven the industry down for almost 2 decades.

In this case, The Beach cinema has pretty much always struggled. Its just a bit too far west to work with the 'restaurant row and Kew Gardens and such, the area around it was never conducive to a nice stroll or a night on the town. Sure, that could be had just 3 blocks east, but people are hard to please. Added to that, no on-site parking (yes, its across the street) but in a locale that is not subway adjacent or with core-like density, cinemas rely on the drive-to crowd inordinately.

Years ago, Cineplex shelved weekday matinees here entirely. That is some very large writing on the wall, when you're trying to get the venue to pay for itself with only 40 open hours per week (Box Office hours).

Back to the overall industry, Cineplex had made the following serious errors:

1) Its over-priced itself, particularly during non-peak times. Weekday matinees at many venues used to rely on seniors or those on fixed incomes/benefits with pricing being roughly 50% of the evening show rate, even for working-age adults, and then you had seniors/youth discounts on top of that. Today, most venues operate at ~$16+ tax or about $18.40 a ticket at all times. If they had retained the old structure, you could either, have gone with $10 matinees daily, but Seniors/Youth $7. Or, you could remove the age component and go with $8, straight-up. If they did that, they would build traffic. Weekend matinees could also get a small discount, $12 a ticket instead of $15. That's how you grow your audience.

2) Relatedly, concession prices are excessive, even relative to historical norms. A medium pop, and a small popcorn will now run you $16+ making it ~$35 a person to see a movie. That's not an impulse buy. Movies are historically the fast food of out-of-home entertainment and should be priced accordingly. I accept a high-markup premise on concession, but they need to dial it back to no more than $12 for a standard drink + popcorn. That would get the basic price point down to ~$30 for an evening show, and $21 for a matinee (with concession).

What they did here was a clear strategy to maximize revenue per guest, instead of maximizing the number of guests. Imagine if McDs adopted this line of thinking, and the price of a typical combo rose to $25. For a real world example of how this doesn't work, see the ever shrinking KFC.

3) Programming. Cineplex has been lazy, in the early 90s, Cineplex had its dedicated Art House, the Carlton, with marketing that highlighted all the different countries and languages of international cinema there.
Additionally, the Highland was used to showcase British Cinema, while Canada Square often got French Cinema and between they and Famous Players, they also had date-night worthy venues like The Eglinton, and The York and 'The Uptown'.
Today, they've turned most venues into generic suburban boxes that lack character inside and out.

Even the Varsity, arguably Cineplex's Prestige Product venue, has diminished. One active aspect is that for a brief time, they actually had a piano in the lobby and had someone in playing on Friday and Saturday, but another, is failing to address their cinemas 7 and 8, which are the original Varsity. The former is tiny and lacks stadium seating, while the latter is large, but again lacks stadium seating and with a shallow rake to the floors, sight lines are poor when the venue is crowded.

The former Paramount (now Scotiabank Cinema) not only has a terrible sounding, class-less name, but also had its association to Paramount Pictures (the Klingon Ship, suspended over the escalators) removed, but also its nightclub vibe neutered. They rarely have even 1/2 the concession stands open; and their idea of how to tackle this, when redevelopment happens is just to cut the number of screens back to 8. Sigh.

Such lazy thinking hasn't been seen since Metrolinx planning a transit project.

*** end rant ***
 
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Back to the overall industry, Cineplex had made the following serious errors:

1) Its over-priced itself, particularly during non-peak times. Weekday matinees at many venues used to rely on seniors or those on fixed incomes/benefits with pricing being roughly 50% of the evening show rate, even for working-age adults, and then you had seniors/youth discounts on top of that. Today, most venues operate at ~$16+ tax or about $18.40 a ticket at all times. If they had retained the old structure, you could either, have gone with $10 matinees daily, but Seniors/Youth $7. Or, you could remove the age component and go with $8, straight-up. If they did that, they would build traffic. Weekend matinees could also get a small discount, $12 a ticket instead of $15. That's how you grow your audience.

2) Relatedly, concession prices are excessive, even relative to historical norms. A medium pop, and a small popcorn will now run you $16+ making it ~$35 a person to see a movie. That's not an impulse buy. Movies are historically the fast food of out-of-home entertainment and should be priced accordingly. I accept a high-markup premise on concession, but they need to dial it back to no more than $12 for a standard drink + popcorn. That would get the basic price point down to ~$30 for an evening show, and $21 for a matinee (with concession).

What they did here was a clear strategy to maximize revenue per guest, instead of maximizing the number of guests. Imagine if McDs adopted this line of thinking, and the price of a typical combo rose to $25. For a real world example of how this doesn't work, see the ever shrinking KFC.

3) Programming. Cineplex has been lazy, in the early 90s, Cineplex had its dedicated Art House, the Carlton, with marketing that highlighted all the different countries and languages of international cinema there.
Additionally, the Highland was used to showcase British Cinema, while Canada Square often got French Cinema and between they and Famous Players, they also had date-night worthy venues like The Eglinton, and The York and 'The Uptown'.
Today, they've turned most venues into generic suburban boxes that lack character inside and out.

Even the Varsity, arguably Cineplex's Prestige Product venue, has diminished. One active aspect is that for a brief time, they actually had a piano in the lobby and had someone in playing on Friday and Saturday, but another, is failing to address their cinemas 7 and 8, which are the original Varsity. The former is tiny and lacks stadium seating, while the latter is large, but again lacks stadium seating and with a shallow rake to the floors, sight lines are poor when the venue is crowded.

The former Paramount (now Scotiabank Cinema) not only has a terrible sounding, class-less name, but also had its association to Paramount Pictures (the Klingon Ship, suspended over the escalators) removed, but also its nightclub vibe neutered. They rarely have even 1/2 the concession stands open; and their idea of how to tackle this, when redevelopment happens is just to cut the number of screens back to 8. Sigh.

Such lazy thinking hasn't been seen since Metrolinx planning a transit project.

*** end rant ***
Just while we're on the brief tangent, your friend ( ;) ) Ellis is retiring at the end of the year so that might make things change over at Cineplex.

I would think Dan McGrath would be next in line to succeed him.
 
According to BlogTO.....

Building permits show that a health and wellness space, Altea will be taking over here.

I just double checked the online permits, and I don't see any permit applications in the last year.....

Are there permits posted on site that aren't listed online?
 
According to BlogTO.....

Building permits show that a health and wellness space, Altea will be taking over here.

I just double checked the online permits, and I don't see any permit applications in the last year.....

Are there permits posted on site that aren't listed online?
Taking over the cineplex space, the horse betting place or history itself ?
 
Cineplex, under the current management has done more to deter regular moving going in general than I ever would have thought possible.

To be sure, streaming has hit the business, and the pandemic wasn't kind, but Cineplex has by wilful ignorance driven the industry down for almost 2 decades.

In this case, The Beach cinema has pretty much always struggled. Its just a bit too far west to work with the 'restaurant row and Kew Gardens and such, the area around it was never conducive to a nice stroll or a night on the town. Sure, that could be had just 3 blocks east, but people are hard to please. Added to that, no on-site parking (yes, its across the street) but in a locale that is not subway adjacent or with core-like density, cinemas rely on the drive-to crowd inordinately.

Years ago, Cineplex shelved weekday matinees here entirely. That is some very large writing on the wall, when you're trying to get the venue to pay for itself with only 40 open hours per week (Box Office hours).

Back to the overall industry, Cineplex had made the following serious errors:

1) Its over-priced itself, particularly during non-peak times. Weekday matinees at many venues used to rely on seniors or those on fixed incomes/benefits with pricing being roughly 50% of the evening show rate, even for working-age adults, and then you had seniors/youth discounts on top of that. Today, most venues operate at ~$16+ tax or about $18.40 a ticket at all times. If they had retained the old structure, you could either, have gone with $10 matinees daily, but Seniors/Youth $7. Or, you could remove the age component and go with $8, straight-up. If they did that, they would build traffic. Weekend matinees could also get a small discount, $12 a ticket instead of $15. That's how you grow your audience.

2) Relatedly, concession prices are excessive, even relative to historical norms. A medium pop, and a small popcorn will now run you $16+ making it ~$35 a person to see a movie. That's not an impulse buy. Movies are historically the fast food of out-of-home entertainment and should be priced accordingly. I accept a high-markup premise on concession, but they need to dial it back to no more than $12 for a standard drink + popcorn. That would get the basic price point down to ~$30 for an evening show, and $21 for a matinee (with concession).

What they did here was a clear strategy to maximize revenue per guest, instead of maximizing the number of guests. Imagine if McDs adopted this line of thinking, and the price of a typical combo rose to $25. For a real world example of how this doesn't work, see the ever shrinking KFC.

3) Programming. Cineplex has been lazy, in the early 90s, Cineplex had its dedicated Art House, the Carlton, with marketing that highlighted all the different countries and languages of international cinema there.
Additionally, the Highland was used to showcase British Cinema, while Canada Square often got French Cinema and between they and Famous Players, they also had date-night worthy venues like The Eglinton, and The York and 'The Uptown'.
Today, they've turned most venues into generic suburban boxes that lack character inside and out.

Even the Varsity, arguably Cineplex's Prestige Product venue, has diminished. One active aspect is that for a brief time, they actually had a piano in the lobby and had someone in playing on Friday and Saturday, but another, is failing to address their cinemas 7 and 8, which are the original Varsity. The former is tiny and lacks stadium seating, while the latter is large, but again lacks stadium seating and with a shallow rake to the floors, sight lines are poor when the venue is crowded.

The former Paramount (now Scotiabank Cinema) not only has a terrible sounding, class-less name, but also had its association to Paramount Pictures (the Klingon Ship, suspended over the escalators) removed, but also its nightclub vibe neutered. They rarely have even 1/2 the concession stands open; and their idea of how to tackle this, when redevelopment happens is just to cut the number of screens back to 8. Sigh.

Such lazy thinking hasn't been seen since Metrolinx planning a transit project.

*** end rant ***
As you mentioned this was a pretty poor place for a cinema in general.

Cineplex is struggling against the wider decline of the box office as a whole, which has consolidated into only the big "blockbusters" more or less at this point with a less extensive theatrical release schedule as well. Things like Romcoms, medium budget movies, and others have largely fallen out of theatrical releases. The dominant genres of cinema have always evolved but what has changed in the last decade is the general drop in theatre attendance and release schedules largely coinsiding with the rise of streaming.

The options used to be to either go to Blockbuster and rent a movie for $5, or go to the Cinema for $8 and see the latest release. Both required an effort of leaving the house, and both had similar incremental costs. These days you can stay home and watch a movie with no incremental additional cost if you already have a streaming subscription, and the at-home viewing experience has gotten cheaper and higher quality with the cost of TVs absolutely plummeting over the last 20 years. It changes people's willingness to go to theatres. And theatres have responded - moviegoers will only show up for the big blockbusters and only occasionally - which means you need to create a premium product both pricing and experience wise to match that frequency of visitation.

The old "fast food of entertainment model" Worked when people went to the theatre almost weekly to watch latest releases - low price, high volume. The volume disappeared, and with it, that model isn't viable. That's why Cineplex has focused on introducing premium theatrical products - AVX, Cineplex VIP, etc. - the goal in declining attendance is to increase revenue per attendee instead of fighting in vain to maintain attendance levels.

It's also going to mean consolidation of theatres and shrinking of their footprint, as the demand model has shifted from cheap and frequent theatre visits to infrequent and "higher quality" expectations for only the biggest annual releases.

This location was always going to fail on that front as neighbourhood theatres became less and less viable in this context, having to consolidate to only the largest of catchment areas. And this theatre has had poor transportation connections and market area access from it's opening day which has only gotten worse and worse with the demolition of the Gardiner ramps and decline of auto ownership in the downtown..

Regarding fast food - even McDonalds has actually moved surprisingly upmarket over the last decade in pricing with the money-printing days of COVID meaning almost endless consumer budgets. There is a push to return to "value" across a whole whack of consumer markets (autos, fast food, entertainment, etc.) now that money supply is tightening and with it disposable spending - McDonalds is pushing it's "$5 value menu" big time right now to try to respond to this.
 
As you mentioned this was a pretty poor place for a cinema in general.

Cineplex is struggling against the wider decline of the box office as a whole, which has consolidated into only the big "blockbusters" more or less at this point with a less extensive theatrical release schedule as well. Things like Romcoms, medium budget movies, and others have largely fallen out of theatrical releases. The dominant genres of cinema have always evolved but what has changed in the last decade is the general drop in theatre attendance and release schedules largely coinsiding with the rise of streaming.

The options used to be to either go to Blockbuster and rent a movie for $5, or go to the Cinema for $8 and see the latest release. Both required an effort of leaving the house, and both had similar incremental costs. These days you can stay home and watch a movie with no incremental additional cost if you already have a streaming subscription. It changes people's willingness to go to theatres. And theatres have responded - moviegoers will only show up for the big blockbusters and only occasionally - which means you need to create a premium product both pricing and experience wise to match that frequency of visitation.

The old "fast food of entertainment model" Worked when people went to the theatre almost weekly to watch latest releases - low price, high volume. The volume disappeared, and with it, that model isn't viable. That's why Cineplex has focused on introducing premium theatrical products - AVX, Cineplex VIP, etc. - the goal in declining attendance is to increase revenue per attendee instead of fighting in vain to maintain attendance levels.

It's also going to mean consolidation of theatres and shrinking of their footprint, as the demand model has shifted from cheap and frequent theatre visits to infrequent and "higher quality" expectations for only the biggest annual releases.

We fundamentally disagree.

To me, the chosen business model simply ends cinema entirely.

Not only is that bad corporate strategy, its bad for society.

The collective experience involved in cinema, or concert going or restaurants is essential to most people

Sitting at home, alone (often true even if you co-habitate) watching something by yourself is not nearly as socially or emotionally valuable.

We see loneliness and depression on the rise.

I'm not suggesting government subsidize going out to the movies anymore than fast food. Merely that there is a natural need for this service, and it is the failure of cinema owners and distributors to build the right venues, in the right places with the right programming and at the right price that leads to their downfall and diminishes us all.

Quick reminder.......all the streamers are losing money. That business model is a failure. It will evolve, likely back into something closer to cable, making for a grand waste of money because no one can think three steps ahead.
 
We fundamentally disagree.

To me, the chosen business model simply ends cinema entirely.

Not only is that bad corporate strategy, its bad for society.

The collective experience involved in cinema, or concert going or restaurants is essential to most people

Sitting at home, alone (often true even if you co-habitate) watching something by yourself is not nearly as socially or emotionally valuable.

We see loneliness and depression on the rise.

I'm not suggesting government subsidize going out to the movies anymore than fast food. Merely that there is a natural need for this service, and it is the failure of cinema owners and distributors to build the right venues, in the right places with the right programming and at the right price that leads to their downfall and diminishes us all.

Quick reminder.......all the streamers are losing money. That business model is a failure. It will evolve, likely back into something closer to cable, making for a grand waste of money because no one can think three steps ahead.
I mean Cineplex can try to return to the fast food model but they don't have a release schedule to support it from the studios, which are increasingly consolidating into streaming. Cineplex has already diversified into wider programming to try to increase occupancy as their release schedule is so barebones from the production studioes.

Netflix posts consistent 25% net profit margins. It's not struggling. Not sure where you think it's struggling.

Some of the smaller streaming platforms like Apple Plus and others are struggling a bit, but Apple is not running Apple Plus for profit and is instead intended to form a part of their wider, wildly profitable "ecosystem".

Netflix at the end of the day has 30% of the global streaming market share, and with profit margins of 25%.. it's printing money - enough that it's going out and buying even the largest legacy studios which were built on cinema (Warner Bros).

Cineplex has had to adapt due to changing market realities outside of it's control.

I don't entirely disagree and also lament the decline of cinema and social outings.. but there is a reason Cineplex has had to do what it has.
 
We fundamentally disagree.

To me, the chosen business model simply ends cinema entirely.

Not only is that bad corporate strategy, its bad for society.

The collective experience involved in cinema, or concert going or restaurants is essential to most people

Sitting at home, alone (often true even if you co-habitate) watching something by yourself is not nearly as socially or emotionally valuable.

We see loneliness and depression on the rise.

I'm not suggesting government subsidize going out to the movies anymore than fast food. Merely that there is a natural need for this service, and it is the failure of cinema owners and distributors to build the right venues, in the right places with the right programming and at the right price that leads to their downfall and diminishes us all.

Quick reminder.......all the streamers are losing money. That business model is a failure. It will evolve, likely back into something closer to cable, making for a grand waste of money because no one can think three steps ahead.
Streaming is basically cable but more expensive already at this point. Everything is bundled (except Netflix who don't need it yet), except now you need even more services to watch sports, but like between the bundles and ads having been forced onto every platform, etc. we're back to cable but over the internet.

We just did the long road to moving cable onto the internet but now it sucks even more. So much for Big Tech improving society.

That said, if I had to guess, YouTube basically will end up killing all the streaming services eventually (except for maybe Netflix and Disney Plus), they have Youtube TV (a cable package over streaming), they have NFL Sunday Ticket, and they also have millions of people who make content for them for free which no streaming service has (unless you count TikTok and Instagram as streaming services). Plus they're Google. They have basically unlimited money.

Netflix is overpaying for Warner Brothers rn because they are terrified of Youtube (and to a lesser extent TikTok). Netflix failed to develop any memorable IP beyond Stranger Things (which has had it's recent issues), so they're buying WB to get Harry Potter and DC Comics to compensate. Plus it gives them a massive library of movies/TV they can withhold from Youtube. I don't think Netflix is buying WB from a place of strength, they are doing it because it is the thing they need to do to ensure they survive long term. Current margins are good for sure, but Stranger Things is done, every new show they make gets cancelled after one season. They need IP to survive the next 10-20 years. WB has IP people love.
 
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