11th
Senior Member
It is a subway going to Renforth, which is connected to Square One by the transitway. It will have its riders.
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Finch West Line 6 LRT
- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
There's schedule changes taking effect Sunday for Line 6. With the data for next week loaded to the Triplinx trip planner, I looked at some travel times.
Looks like the (5 pm) Tuesday travel time from Finch West to Humber station is 44 minutes, compared to 46 minutes today.
Some progress ... I wonder what the time will be when they fully open it.
Looks like the (5 pm) Tuesday travel time from Finch West to Humber station is 44 minutes, compared to 46 minutes today.
Some progress ... I wonder what the time will be when they fully open it.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
The Finch Line will have arrived at mediocrity when Google Maps says taking Line 6 is a recommended route going from Sheppard West station to Humber College. If the fastest route is to head south and take the Wilson bus, it hasn't even reached mediocrity yet. To reach being an improvement to transit in Toronto (beyond just being a slightly improved Finch West bus route improvement) it probably needs to get to an average trip time of 38 min or less to be the mode of transportation most trips to Humber College would recommend. The original expected operating time of 33-34 minutes is like a dream outcome that seems almost unimaginable now. Unfortunately as well, if at some point people did realize this line has too many stops, there are only a few you could remove without really wanting the move the stops that remain to make them more central. The stop spacing is on average closer together than the Bloor line and the area has a long way to go before this has the urban environment of Bloor and Danforth.
Steve X
Senior Member
The whole point of Line 6 was to serve the community by having more stops. The LRT is suppose to have an advantage of being more reliable and carry more capacity than an express bus in mix traffic like the 996 Wilson Express going to Humber College. It wasn't just speed.
The fastest way from downtown to Humber College is Line 2 + 927. That'll never change. The sad part is the ride time on Line 2 + 927 from St George to Humber College (excluding 927 wait time) is around the same time to ride the entire Line 6.
nfitz
Superstar
The recommended routes I get is to take the subway up to 407 station and take the GO Bus from there to Humber College - I don't see that being beat, with the 20-minute travel time from 407 Station to Humber.
Part of the problem with taking Line 1 and then Line 6, is it says it takes a 6-minute walk from the subway to the LRT platforms - I thought they were a lot closer than that (and that doesn't include an additional 3-minute wait for a train). Is it really a 6-minute walk from the optimum place on each platform? I should check this out one day - but I struggle to think of a personal reason to go up there.
From Bloor Street perhaps. But from, say Union Station, once the new GO station at Highway 27 is complete, that will be the fastest, even without a Line 6 extension. Even now taking GO to Bramalea and backtracking on the Brampton Transit bus 11 is a similar time as Line 2 + 927.
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duffo
Active Member
Part of the problem is the main demographic of people obsessing over this do not live along Finch. They are obsessed with end to end travel time, when the line is meant to service people living in between the two ends of the line. As noted, no LRT is beating a 20-min trip on the highway. An express highway service will always be faster than one that stops on local roads - and that's by design.
Of course there's been much discourse about the speed of the line and that presents challenges for those using it daily as well, but the shorter your trip gets, the less your overall journey time is affected by travel speed relative to waiting time (frequency). There are still improvements that could be made on both fronts, without focusing on the competitiveness of Humber College<>Finch West Station trips.
Of course there's been much discourse about the speed of the line and that presents challenges for those using it daily as well, but the shorter your trip gets, the less your overall journey time is affected by travel speed relative to waiting time (frequency). There are still improvements that could be made on both fronts, without focusing on the competitiveness of Humber College<>Finch West Station trips.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
If it isn't about rapid transit, then it is a streetcar is it not? If the service met it's original 34 minute target it would be rapid transit. Getting times similar to a bus is just normal transit. Obviously the line is to service people living between the the ends of the two lines... but the statistics aren't much better for points along the line. To go to Emery it takes 20 minutes to travel 4.4km... that is 13km/h. The car in bad traffic is doing 22km/h.
If there is one good thing that comes from Line 6 it is the realization that signal priority needs focus, not that it is the reason the Finch LRT is slow because the bus it replaced never had transit priority, but because signal priority is the reason other routes are slow. If this understanding of the need for signal priority expands beyond Line 5 and Line 6 to be implemented on the 510, 509, and on King from Bathurst to Jarvis as a result, the failure that the Line 6 launch is will have been a great success for Toronto.
Westey
Active Member
If the goal is serving people going from the corridor to the corridor, then nothing beats the bus. By its very nature, rapid transit has stops too far apart to serve all local travel. The person going from their house to school or to a local convenience store will only be using the transit for a few kilometers.
For a 4km trip, say they go 12 km/hr on bus, 20 km on LRT and 30 km/hr on Elevated Metro. That's 16, 12 and 8 minutes respectively. But you added a 7 minute walk to the LRT trip and 10 minutes to the Metro, since nothing beats a bus for a stop close to where you want.
So short distance, bus wins every time.
Obsidian
Active Member
Any hypothesis why the surface sections of Line 5 is much faster than the surface section of line 6?
EnviroTO
Senior Member
The vehicles on Line 6 are deficient? See Citadis Spirit under Ottawa experiences from July 2020 onwards. There is something not right with the engineering of the interface between the carbodies and the rail, and you can feel it while you are riding the Finch West LRT. At no time does a Finch West LRT glide more smoothly than the Eglinton LRT vehicles.
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dullturtle06
Active Member
After riding line 5 today. I can say for certain that the Citadis Spirits are garbage. It was a mistake for Metrolinx to switch from the Flexity's to to Spirits. The Flexitys have better acceleration, are so smooth to ride. I remember riding line 6 with it constantly vibrating like the wheels were disintegrating underneath me.
nfitz
Superstar
In addition to the vehicles (I wonder if it's too late to sell the Line 6 and Line 10 cars to Ottawa and buy more Flexities), I think there may be competence issues with the consortium as well as a lack of sufficient testing.
Testing of the the Line 5 cars on the surface section started almost 5 years ago, back in May 2021, by which point the track was all laid from the portal near Laird to (near?) Kennedy.
Line 6 however didn't have all the track down until mid-2023. With the first trains along the length of the line in May 2024 - only 18 months before opening.
(I'm not sure why TTC approved Line 6 opening, but held off on Line 5, which Metrolinx wanted to open at the same time, only a few months ago).
McGillicuddy
Active Member
After the trouble Ottawa has had with their Citaldis Spirits, persuading them to buy a bunch of unwanted spares would be tantamount to selling them a bag of magic beans.
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Bojaxs
Senior Member
I was under the impression the Flexities ceased to exist after Alstom bought out Bombardier's train division?
Edmonton wanted more of them for their Valley line, but couldn't get any, and so they had to order trains from Hyundai Rotem instead.
The Citadis Spirits are garbage because Alstom didn't even want to make them. They're a "Frankenstein" train they slapped together to appease Ottawa City Council's silly demands, and to try and secure the O-train contract. Read up on the origins of the train. It's ridiculous!
Edmonton wanted more of them for their Valley line, but couldn't get any, and so they had to order trains from Hyundai Rotem instead.
The Citadis Spirits are garbage because Alstom didn't even want to make them. They're a "Frankenstein" train they slapped together to appease Ottawa City Council's silly demands, and to try and secure the O-train contract. Read up on the origins of the train. It's ridiculous!
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Amare
Senior Member
But yet Metrolinx and the Provincial government is more than happy to buy more of that deficient product known as the Citadis Spirit, in large part because they are "providing local jobs" (the Brampton assembly line).
If Metrolinx actually did their jobs properly, they would've be throwing red flags all over before they were put in place for the Hurontario Line but that ship has long sailed. So now Ottawa, FInch West, Hurontario, and even Hamilton will be stuck using problematic vehicles all because no one wants to do their job in forcing Alstom to make changes.
Hamilton can still have their vehicle's changed, but Metrolinx seemingly has no interest in doing so.