Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Amare]

So a key question that no one has answered yet:

Why hasnt former premier Mike Harris been invited to open the line this Sunday?

Without his stupidity and idiocy we never would've got to this monumental day.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

So a key question that no one has answered yet:

Why hasnt former premier Mike Harris been invited to open the line this Sunday?

Without his stupidity and idiocy we never would've got to this monumental day.

That's like asking why Dalton McGuinty or Kathleen Wynne or David Miller aren't gonna be there since they were the reasons we have an LRT. While Harris is the reason why we never had a subway. But since there is no opening ceremony, it's a moot point.

 

[lead82]

It's actually 408 secs = 6.8 mins. Compare with Line 2 which is 6 minutes for the exact same trip from Bathurst to Bloor-Yonge. Really not much difference.

You’re right. I accidentally counted Cedarvale to Yonge, which is more like 3.3km. 6.8mins from Bathurst to Yonge still seems long. Comparing to L2 doesn’t make sense as there are three stops on L2 for same distance and 2/3 are major interchange stops with typically longer dwell times then I would expect at Chaplin or Avenue.

Anyways let’s see: I’m glad it’s finally opening but I am shocked they didn’t include a renovation of Eglinton station. It’s now a major hub and it needs a lot of TLC.

 

[yurt2022]

Somehow I don't see a properly done light rail possible for EC. The tunneled portion could be a breeze to travel through then face gridlock in the at-grade sections. As such periods of several minutes could transpire with no surface, causing crowding at stops then all of a sudden two, three vehicles appear at once. This isn't better than buses but more encouragement to take private modes of transport. I'd prefer short-distance subways that intensify stops where necessary than line after line of kilometre-apart ones that require monster suburban terminals to feed them with multiple bus routes. EC as a LRT line wouldn't be faster than the buses its replacing, which is why we should support an Eglinton subway line instead.

What happened to bro

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

What happened to bro

He's still undying. . But boy, is his concern about to become very real... if we can find him, undead, we can tell him!

 

[bearcat]

You’re right. I accidentally counted Cedarvale to Yonge, which is more like 3.3km. 6.8mins from Bathurst to Yonge still seems long. Comparing to L2 doesn’t make sense as there are three stops on L2 for same distance and 2/3 are major interchange stops with typically longer dwell times then I would expect at Chaplin or Avenue.

Anyways let’s see: I’m glad it’s finally opening but I am shocked they didn’t include a renovation of Eglinton station. It’s now a major hub and it needs a lot of TLC.

Yes, I was at Eglinton Station just recently and it really looks rough. Even the newly done North end of the platform looks unfinished.

 

[nfitz]

No comment on what the future holds after a week of service, plus higher speed limits in March and TSP in May. However, I do think that expectations should be tempered for Sunday. Unless you want disappointment.

Also:
Credit to @CYYC2CYYZ from Reddit:
"Line 5 Published Timetable (from TTC's Timetable Data / GTFS Released Today)"
View attachment 712671
I suspect that time stuck at red lights was not included.

If it is GTFS data as claimed, then it would include red lights. 53 minutes would be the scheduled end-to-end travel time. Though I'm surprised at how quick the travel times are. Though looking closely there's some relatively long distances between some of the overground stops. Though I'm suspicious of some of the distances. I thought the Ionview stop to Kennedy was closer to 700 metres than 600 metres for example.

Really, it's only the 3 segments between Victoria Park and Warden that jump out as being particularly short.

Another thing that jumps out ... there's only two segments that hit the maximum average speed for a segment of 26 km/hr. And that's Laird to Leslie (Sunnybrook) and Leslie to Don Mills (Don Valley). I'm not surprised that's the fastest of the "above ground" segments, with only the single traffic light at Leslie. I am surprised it's faster than any of the fully underground segments! I'd take the numbers in this table with a grain of salt.

But if anything, this does the oppose of tempering my expectations. Especially when they get to the full opening come spring or summer (which year! )

 

[Bojaxs]

I'm contemplating a trip to Vancouver sometime this year, and I'm doing a deep dive on Vancouver's SkyTrain network.

Based off an article I just read, I wonder if Line 5 will suffer the same fate as the Canada Line in Vancouver. It's very interesting how you can draw parallels between the early planning stages of both the Canada line in Vancouver and the Eglinton Line in Toronto.

In the end, the pro-LRT crowd in Vancouver agreed to construct a neutered down version of the SkyTrain (glorified people mover). Similar to how the pro-LRT crowd in Toronto agreed to a neutered down subway in the form of an underground LRT.

Opinion: Canada Line is a model example of a poorly-designed, under-built toy train | Urbanized

SkyTrain's Canada Line, turning 10 years old in 2019, epitomizes Metro Vancouver's tendencies of under-building transportation infrastructure.

dailyhive.com

When the project was being planned, there were serious considerations with turning the entire line into a street-level LRT line to cut down on construction costs. Many vocal regional politicians and media commentators at the time expressed deep skepticism over the perceived unrealistically high ridership forecasts, and some of these individuals thought simply more bus service would be sufficient in attracting more ridership.

Richmond city council even wanted a separate street-level LRT system for their segment along No. 3 Road from Bridgeport to Richmond-Brighouse instead of an elevated guideway, and this was largely over aesthetic reasons.

Street-level LRT would have never achieved the ridership levels the Canada Line is experiencing today; the Canada Line’s current ridership with 19 km of track and 16 stations far exceeds the entire Portland MAX Light Rail system ridership of 121,000 per day with 97 km of track and 97 stations across five lines.

 

[urbanclient]

It's actually 408 secs = 6.8 mins. Compare with Line 2 which is 6 minutes for the exact same trip from Bathurst to Bloor-Yonge. Really not much difference.

I think it's actually closer to 5 minutes from Bathurst to Bloor-Yonge. I strongly suspect there are conservative operations for the Eglinton underground section as well (i.e. acceleration, braking, platform speed limits, dwell times).

I may be 100% wrong about not including red lights, but something doesn't add up. I calculated a simple model that is spot on with the average segment times for underground and surface. I included 30 sec for stationary time at each stop, but I didn't include red light time. The only way one can manage 23-25 km/h average speeds for the underground section is with some combo of slow acceleration and braking, as well as low platform speed limits and long dwell times. If acceleration is slow underground, then upping the top speed to 88 from 60 km/h would only save 2-4 seconds per segment i.e. virtually no difference in average speed.

For reference, Line 2 Bloor's average speed downtown is 26-27 km/h.

This is why expectations for Sunday should be tempered, Line 6 FW was consistently doing 50, 60+ minutes when it opened, slower than scheduled. It's now frequently in the mid 40s.

If it is GTFS data as claimed, then it would include red lights. 53 minutes would be the scheduled end-to-end travel time.

Mt. Dennis to Yonge-Eg should be much faster than 20-24 minutes, Yonge-Eg to Kennedy should be slower than 35 minutes. I genuinely don't know where they got 35 min from [from TTC board meeting].

https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/1qvq4az/new_attraction_at_mount_dennis_station

 

[hawc]

Do we know if each station will have some unique artwork in it like the extension up to Vaughn Metropolitan Centre which was awesome.

The TTC can be very beautiful when it wants to be.

 

[Bojaxs]

Do we know if each station will have some unique artwork in it like the extension up to Vaughn Metropolitan Centre which was awesome.

The TTC can be very beautiful when it wants to be.

View attachment 712807

Artwork? Perhaps, but most likely just murals. Nothing to the extent that we see on the Vaughan extension of Line 1. IIRC, some folks on this forum have expressed displeasure with the grandiose design of the 407 highway station. I personally love it!

Remember these stations were designed by Metrolinx, not the TTC. If Mt. Dennis, Cedarvale, and the Finch station for Line 6 are anything to go by, Metrolinx most likely cheaped out on the Line 5 stations and they'll all be relatively uniform with each other.

 

[Richard White]

Artwork? Perhaps, but most likely just murals. Nothing to the extent that we see on the Vaughan extension of Line 1. IIRC, some folks on this forum have expressed displeasure with the grandiose design of the 407 highway station. I personally love it!

Ah yes.. I miss telling people to **** off using the LED lighting at Pioneer Village!

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

I think it's actually 5 minutes from Bathurst to Bloor-Yonge. I strongly suspect there are conservative operations for the Eglinton underground section as well (i.e. acceleration, braking, platform speed limits, dwell times).

I may be 100% wrong about not including red lights, but something doesn't add up. I calculated a simple model that is spot on with the average segment times for underground and surface. I included 30 sec for stationary time at each stop, but I didn't include red light time. The only way one can manage 23-25 km/h average speeds for the underground section is with some combo of slow acceleration and braking, as well as low platform speed limits and long dwell times. If acceleration is slow underground, then upping the top speed to 88 from 60 km/h would only save 2-4 seconds per segment i.e. virtually no difference in average speed.

For reference, Line 2 Bloor's average speed downtown is 26-27 km/h.

This is why expectations for Sunday should be tempered, Line 6 FW was consistently doing 50, 60+ minutes when it opened, slower than scheduled. It's now frequently in the mid 40s.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/1qvq4az/new_attraction_at_mount_dennis_station

Safe to say there is gonna be a lot of mopping going on and attempts to plug that hole in the next few days....

 

[crs1026]

Artwork? Perhaps, but most likely just murals. Nothing to the extent that we see on the Vaughan extension of Line 1. IIRC, some folks on this forum have expressed displeasure with the grandiose design of the 407 highway station. I personally love it!

Remember these stations were designed by Metrolinx, not the TTC. If Mt. Dennis, Cedarvale, and the Finch station for Line 6 are anything to go by, Metrolinx most likely cheaped out on the Line 5 stations and they'll all be relatively uniform with each other.

I won't rekindle that whole debate, beyond noting that TYSSE is one extreme and Line 5 may be another extreme, with lots of middle ground possible going forward.

What ML does deserve credit for on Line 5 is its efforts to blend stations into the streetscape along Eglinton, especially with respect to heritage buildings and overall harmony with the prevailing heights and setbacks. The Kodak building, the Forest Hill fire/police station, the bank at Mount Pleasant are all great examples that a different builder might not have cared about.

The context on Eglinton (densely urban, main street typology) is very different than TYSSE (which was much more open fields, wide spaces, room to be grand) and ML responded to that. Stations of the scale of TYSSE would have been sore thumbs on Eglinton.

How TOD changes that remains to be seen. And yeah, the result may be a bit bland, but that's in keeping with much of Line 1 and line 2, so practically a cultural norm in this city.

- Paul

 

[ThenWhat]

[…]

What ML does deserve credit for on Line 5 is its efforts to blend stations into the streetscape along Eglinton, especially with respect to heritage buildings and overall harmony with the prevailing heights and setbacks. The Kodak building, the Forest Hill fire/police station, the bank at Mount Pleasant are all great examples that a different builder might not have cared about.

[…]

Yes, a good point. Credit should be given where it's due.

That raises questions about the other stations. Those ugly above ground boxes at Laird, Bayview, Don Mills (aka Don Valley) etc. Are they meant to be temporary until a developer comes in with a proposal to build a real building instead?