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Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

www.cp24.com

High-speed rail line could see long tunnels beneath Montreal, Toronto, raising costs

The Crown corporation overseeing a planned high-speed rail line between Toronto and Quebec City says tunnels will be needed in Montreal and possibly Toronto.
www.cp24.com www.cp24.com

High-speed rail line could see long tunnels beneath Montreal, Toronto, raising costs
​

“To reach Montreal, the current hypothesis involves building a tunnel under the Rivière des Prairies and Mount Royal to access downtown directly, reducing integration challenges in a dense urban setting,” states Alto’s preamble to an online survey about the proposed railroad.

It is also considering tunnels or elevated tracks to reach downtown Toronto “from the north or the east,” terminating at either Union Station or a nearby location.
 
Fervid Corona said:
www.cp24.com

High-speed rail line could see long tunnels beneath Montreal, Toronto, raising costs

The Crown corporation overseeing a planned high-speed rail line between Toronto and Quebec City says tunnels will be needed in Montreal and possibly Toronto.
www.cp24.com www.cp24.com

High-speed rail line could see long tunnels beneath Montreal, Toronto, raising costs​

​

“To reach Montreal, the current hypothesis involves building a tunnel under the Rivière des Prairies and Mount Royal to access downtown directly, reducing integration challenges in a dense urban setting,” states Alto’s preamble to an online survey about the proposed railroad.

It is also considering tunnels or elevated tracks to reach downtown Toronto “from the north or the east,” terminating at either Union Station or a nearby location.
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In this context elevated means at-grade methinks. Tunneling under union would be crazy
 
legoswmonkey said:
Sure, but for the majority of the city which lives on the west end, getting on at Rideau instead of Tremblay saves a decent chunk of time and the excruciating turns at Hurdman. If the city ever gets a form of commuter rail (stares at the Beachburg sub), Union makes for a far, far better terminus than Tremblay. This will likely be the only chance for Ottawa to get a downtown station back, so I think it makes sense to invest in it as part of this 'nation-building' project. If they're tunneling 5+km through Mont Royal they can spend a bit on a trench (or cut-and-cover!) where Colonel By used to be.
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I feel like the more obvious solution is to just have a station at Fallowfield, and maybe fund the Line 1 extension there. That will be far more effective at serving Ottawa's West End than moving the Ottawa Station from Tremblay to Rideau.

Mihairokov said:
Seems like zero possibility the old Ottawa Union Station is used for HSR for the reasons you highlight. It would slow down trips substantially and would remind me of the VIA trains in Quebec City that enter and then reverse out. Lengthy and needless delay.

IMO, Tremblay would be the ideal, but if not Tremblay it feels like it'll be out near the airport around Greenboro or Hunt Club. Definitely not my preference but would offer transfers to/from YOW and be the quickest route through the city.
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I think the reason it's being considered is a sort of selfishness on the part of the Federal Government. Ottawa Union Station is just a few minutes walk away from important destinations such Parliament, the Supreme Court, various embassies, etc. As such from the perspective of MPs and other government workers who want/need to frequently travel to Ottawa, having the train drop you off right next to where you need to be is extremely appealing. Plus it makes for a good impression to potential foreign visitors (doubly so due to the aforementioned embassy proximity).

Edit/P.S. Admittedly I do think that there is a concern regarding the Confederation Line's capacity. When the city was doing ridership projections for the line, I doubt they were taking into account that there might be an HSR station built at Tremblay that will get Montreal into commuting distance from Ottawa, ditto for why I think having the HSR drop people off at the REM and forcing people to transfer downtown is a bad idea. It's entirely possible that the planers over at Alto share the same concerns regarding local transit capacity.
 
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Interestingly, the Greber Plan called for the replacement Union Station to be all the way out at Walkley Road outside the 1940s-era city limits. The freight terminal would have gone where the current station is located. I could see the temptation to but the Alto station around there (there's a small rail yard in that location) to minimize the Toronto-Montreal running time further, but it's good to see the considerations focus on a closer location - and this is why the current VIA station is probably the preferred choice.


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legoswmonkey said:
It's not a guarantee that the station is placed there, but Alto's consultation map includes darker colouring showing the locations under consideration. Ottawa's bubble goes nowhere near Greenboro, and is clearly an ellipse drawn between Parliament and Tremblay. Montreal shows they're aiming for a circle including Gare Centrale and Lucien L'Allier downtown, and then between De La Concorde and the highway in Laval.

View attachment 710086View attachment 710087
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I hadn't seen this, thanks.

reaperexpress said:
That's where the original Transitway station was.
View attachment 710070

It sucked because you always needed to cross the crazy pickup/dropoff lanes and bus lanes in front of the station to get between the OC Transpo station and the Via Rail station. The current location is much better since it allows people to connect between the stations without crossing the main roadways.
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Definitely, but an easy solution would be to either raise or lower the pathway b/w LRT and VIA stations so people aren't crossing a road.

For me, I think it's inexcusable that the transfer between the current LRT and VIA station is outdoors. They should have been integrated far better than what they currently are.
 
ShonTron said:
Interestingly, the Greber Plan called for the replacement Union Station to be all the way out at Walkley Road outside the 1940s-era city limits. The freight terminal would have gone where the current station is located. I could see the temptation to but the Alto station around there (there's a small rail yard in that location) to minimize the Toronto-Montreal running time further, but it's good to see the considerations focus on a closer location - and this is why the current VIA station is probably the preferred choice.


View attachment 710207
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Given the size of Ottawa (1.5M metro area) it probably makes most sense to include a relatively central station location despite the travel time implications. In that case Alto could reuse the existing railway that the federal government already owns and the relatively central railway station that they also already own and has plenty of spare capacity. This would also avoid the need to build a new railway through Ottawa in the initial rollout of HSR, which would drastically increase project risk. If the pricetag and construction timeline balloons out of control, HSR will become a political hot potato like it is in California.

To reduce Toronto-Montreal travel times in later stages of HSR, they could protect for an additional bypass, either through Walkley yard or through the greenbelt.
Capture1.jpg


The bypass is something that can be added much later after HSR demand has had some time to grow. France did similar with their early HSR lines, such as the Paris Sud-Est LGV. In Lyon (metro population 1.7M), the initial TGV service used the classic lines through the city centre, serving the existing Lyon-Part-Dieu station in the city centre. It wasn't until 13 years later with the extension of the LGV to Marseille that the city centre route was supplemented by a high-speed bypass around Lyon, serving the Lyon St-Exupéry Airport.
capture2.jpg
 
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McGillicuddy said:
Or, hear me out on this, we could detour the line through Port Hope, one of the most exciting and vibrant cities in Canada, and a place where the MP, MPP and Mayor all agree deserves high-speed rail service!
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By astounding coincidence, the MP, MPP and Mayor of my community also all agree that it deserves high-speed rail service.
 
McGillicuddy said:
Or, hear me out on this, we could detour the line through Port Hope, one of the most exciting and vibrant cities in Canada, and a place where the MP, MPP and Mayor all agree deserves high-speed rail service!
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Really, the The Big Apple (Colbourne) deserves a stop, too...

To be fair though, if the train station was across the road from the Schnitzel Shack, then I would only be about 97% opposed to PH having a stop.
 
McGillicuddy said:
Or, hear me out on this, we could detour the line through Port Hope, one of the most exciting and vibrant cities in Canada, and a place where the MP, MPP and Mayor all agree deserves high-speed rail service!
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Looking at the reactions to your post, one member (so far) clearly does not get your sense of humour. LOL
 
McGillicuddy said:
Or, hear me out on this, we could detour the line through Port Hope, one of the most exciting and vibrant cities in Canada, and a place where the MP, MPP and Mayor all agree deserves high-speed rail service!
Click to expand...

I mean there's a dude here who keeps telling us that Alexandria deserves an HSR stop because it's about to become a major suburb of Ottawa....
 
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