Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[ThenWhat]

I am going to go on limb and predict that there will be no where near the type of criticism of this line compared to Line 6 (FWLRT). First of all […]

TTC can avoid most of the negative reaction if they advertise the service on Line 5 as "soft opening" AND keep the existing bus network in place for some initial period.
For Line 6, TTC communications refer to it as "soft launch", but that cannot be taken seriously when they at the same time cancelled the bus service that people used previously.
We can forever discuss apportioning the blame for all the problems with Line 6. But cancelling the 36 bus along Finch West was TTC decision.

 

[Rainforest]

If we use rush hour as a test bed for speed, and we use alternative methods of traveling from terminus to terminus, what should be the fastest in order of the following: Line 5, car, bike, walk, run?

My thinking is during rush hour, Line 5 should be the fastest.

Yes, Line 5 will be the fastest during the rush hours.

Even with the ridiculously slow operation on surface similar to what we see on Line 6. Those slow sections make 40% of the length. The other 60% is tunneled or elevated, and that will make the overall travel time competitive.

 

[Chaplinurbex]

What stupidity of the TTC

Track quality of a brand new line?!

He's just making shit up. This forum is full of "experts" talking about every single rumor under the sun. Remember when everyone was going on and on about stations sinking or had cracked foundations and therefore "it will never open because no one knows how to fix it".

 

[micheal_can]

Yes, Line 5 will be the fastest during the rush hours.

Even with the ridiculously slow operation on surface similar to what we see on Line 6. Those slow sections make 40% of the length. The other 60% is tunneled or elevated, and that will make the overall travel time competitive.

Isn't this the point? The subways are not the fastest when there is little traffic to contend with. So, if the LRT is faster than driving at the most congested times of day, how is that a bad thing?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

I am going to go on limb and predict that there will be no where near the type of criticism of this line compared to Line 6 (FWLRT). First of all ,the station spacing west of Don Mills seems reasonable to me. East of Don Mills could be another story though. But still, most of the line should allow for reasonable commute times, moreso with grade separation. Also, there is great connectivity options with this service. For example, The UP express should see a surge in demand because this line opens up access to UP express to much much greater number of the population. You will have more options going to the airport if you live in Mid town or North York or parts of Scarborough. Unlike previously, whereby it (UP express) pretty much just took you from airport to down town, but what about everyone else who doesn't live downtown and needs to get to the airport? Lastly, most commuters wont have to freeze their A$$es off (or get soaked in the rain) waiting outside on those poor shelters, this line makes the waiting much much more bare able.

The TTC's and Metrolinx "One Fare" program allows free transfers between TTC, GO Transit, and other regional agencies, but UP Express (UPX) is NOT included. Which means, if one transfers to UPX from the TTC to get to the airport, it means an extra $$$ fare. Hopefully, the UPX train is on time, it would be quicker.

Unless the TTC actually implements the 901 Airport-Eglinton Express from Mount Dennis Station (allegedly). Then that would be just a transfer and not another fare. Hopefully, the traffic congestion caused by the single-occupant SUVs don't slow the bus trip.

(Subject to change, of course.)

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

The TTC's and Metrolinx "One Fare" program allows free transfers between TTC, GO Transit, and other regional agencies, but UP Express (UPX) is NOT included. Which means, if one transfers to UPX from the TTC to get to the airport, it means an extra $$$ fare.

Unless the TTC actually implements the 901 Airport-Eglinton Express from Mount Dennis Station (allegedly). Then that would be just a transfer and not another fare.
View attachment 710218

(Subject to change, of course.)

Metrolinx and TTC are planning on eventually implementing One Fare for the UP Express. It's just that UP Express is supposed to be a premium service so there has been some reluctance in the past to the idea, but given that UP Express is definitely being used a lot for not just airport travel but by commuters and with St Clair-Old Weston Station going to only be served by UP, TTC is forcing Metrolinx's hand on it.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Metrolinx and TTC are planning on eventually implementing One Fare for the UP Express. It's just that UP Express is supposed to be a premium service so there has been some reluctance in the past to the idea, but given that UP Express is definitely being used a lot for not just airport travel but by commuters and with St Clair-Old Weston Station going to only be served by UP, TTC is forcing Metrolinx's hand on it.

Hence the "subject to change".

 

[Burnt creek]

The TTC's and Metrolinx "One Fare" program allows free transfers between TTC, GO Transit, and other regional agencies, but UP Express (UPX) is NOT included. Which means, if one transfers to UPX from the TTC to get to the airport, it means an extra $$$ fare.

Unless the TTC actually implements the 901 Airport-Eglinton Express from Mount Dennis Station (allegedly). Then that would be just a transfer and not another fare.
View attachment 710218

(Subject to change, of course.)

True, but I still think that the extra fare for the UP Express (as opposed to integration with TTC fare) is still something that the people will pay for if they know that they are getting a premium service. And most importantly, the combined fares of TTC and UP Express will still be much much less than the cost of most ground transportation options from Pearson. The combined costs of TTC and UP will max out to $15-$16 per trip versus the $50-$70 per trip that you have to pay for cabs/Uber for example. Even the per day rates on Park and Fly, can really add up to the hundreds depending how long you are away. To keep this UP express attractive, you need good comfortable seats. You also need to be able to store, haul and carry luggage around with minimal difficulty and inconveniences. To keep all that, its got to be a premium type service and to pay extra for that, seems very fair.

Many years ago, there were suggestion to integrate. this service with with existing lines by adding stops. That thought made me shiver because that would killed the appeal of this service since it would have hampered the convenience and killed its its biggest appeal: 25 minutes from Airport to downtown.

 

[11th]

True, but I still think that the extra fare for the UP Express (as opposed to integration with TTC fare) is still something that the people will pay for if they know that they are getting a premium service. And most importantly, the combined fares of TTC and UP Express will still be much much less than the cost of most ground transportation options from Pearson. The combined costs of TTC and UP will max out to $15-$16 per trip versus the $50-$70 per trip that you have to pay for cabs/Uber for example. Even the per day rates on Park and Fly, can really add up to the hundreds depending how long you are away. To keep this UP express attractive, you need good comfortable seats. You also need to be able to store, haul and carry luggage around with minimal difficulty and inconveniences. To keep all that, its got to be a premium type service and to pay extra for that, seems very fair.

Many years ago, there were suggestion to integrate. this service with with existing lines by adding stops. That thought made me shiver because that would killed the appeal of this service since it would have hampered the convenience and killed its its biggest appeal: 25 minutes from Airport to downtown.

Can't exactly compare with cabs/Uber as they are point to point service. The premium pays for that.
A better comparison should be GO's airport routes.

 

[Burnt creek]

Can't exactly compare with cabs/Uber as they are point to point service. The premium pays for that.
A better comparison should be GO's airport routes.

True but GO changes their bus routes. I know of one example of nearby route for GO (to the airport) that got changed last year and I still don't know why. The service can be very infrequent. You are limited with GO unless you are lucky to have nearby Go Bus stop. With Line 5 to the UP express, a lot of people you should be able to get there from their subway station or TTC bus stop.

PS.: I forgot to mention. Go buses are sometimes not reliable at all when you are returning to Toronto on Sunday or statutory holiday. The waits for the GO buses at Person can be torturous. I believe UP express is a much more regular service on weekends and stat holidays.

 

[CityRider]

Yes, Line 5 will be the fastest during the rush hours.

Even with the ridiculously slow operation on surface similar to what we see on Line 6. Those slow sections make 40% of the length. The other 60% is tunneled or elevated, and that will make the overall travel time competitive.

Completely subjective on my part, but having cycled the length of Eglinton from about Warden to Allen Rd a few times the last couple winters when Line 5 testing was going on and the trains were stopping at stops, etc, I was passed multiple times on the surface sections (no idea of the tunneled portions of course). This was daytime, no snow, December as I recall. Compare this to when I'm regularly able to pass 3-4 streetcars on King street between Jarvis and Bathurst (of course, not a fair comparison with stop distances, traffic, etc)

 

[rdaner]

Metrolinx and TTC are planning on eventually implementing One Fare for the UP Express. It's just that UP Express is supposed to be a premium service so there has been some reluctance in the past to the idea, but given that UP Express is definitely being used a lot for not just airport travel but by commuters and with St Clair-Old Weston Station going to only be served by UP, TTC is forcing Metrolinx's hand on it.

As a daily user of UPX I will say that most people during busy periods get off at Weston or Bloor.

 

[Rainforest]

Completely subjective on my part, but having cycled the length of Eglinton from about Warden to Allen Rd a few times the last couple winters when Line 5 testing was going on and the trains were stopping at stops, etc, I was passed multiple times on the surface sections (no idea of the tunneled portions of course). This was daytime, no snow, December as I recall. Compare this to when I'm regularly able to pass 3-4 streetcars on King street between Jarvis and Bathurst (of course, not a fair comparison with stop distances, traffic, etc)

Well that's how it is supposed to be. Even when in street median and subject to traffic lights, but: not competing for space with any other vehicles, and the stop spacing is fairly wide.

I am glad if this is going to work on Eglinton. And, still very confused why it can't / doesn't work on Finch West.

 

[urbanclient]

Isn't this the point? The subways are not the fastest when there is little traffic to contend with. So, if the LRT is faster than driving at the most congested times of day, how is that a bad thing?

That's the point for system that meets baseline expectations. Some metros in China can beat driving at any time of day. Top speeds hitting 100 km/h are common, rarer express lines are in the 120 to 160 km/h range. Slow, lumbering subways that rarely hit their theoretical top speed of 75 km/h like Toronto's Line 1 are a relic of the past.

 

[Rainforest]

Isn't this the point? The subways are not the fastest when there is little traffic to contend with. So, if the LRT is faster than driving at the most congested times of day, how is that a bad thing?

Still not a great design overall. With the amount of money spent, should have added 20% more and build a high-capacity subway line. Not needing that capacity today, or even 15 years from now? True, but what about 50 or 70 years from now. It will be quite hard to boost the capacity even then.

However .. if nothing particularly bad occurs, the public reception of this line might actually be positive once it opens. General public does not think about the billions spent, or about the potential capacity issues 50 years down the road. As long as it does not get an outage on the opening week, and the total travel times are good for many riders .. people will be happy.