Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[toonderly]

100% agree with your first sentence. Impossible to know how a December launch would've gone

What I will say is that I won't be disappointed if: i) the surface section feels faster than Line 6; and/or ii) the underground section feels as fast as a subway. I will be disappointed if neither of these things are true because then it feels like the delay had gone to waste, even if I had no idea what things were like in December. Is this rational? Probably not. Yet that is how I, an average person, will feel about this

At the very least I am looking forward to being able to wait on one platform at Eglinton instead of trying to predict which of several buses might arrive and leave next and having to dash to a different position at the last minute.

 

[pleaseLRT]

At the very least I am looking forward to being able to wait on one platform at Eglinton instead of trying to predict which of several buses might arrive and leave next and having to dash to a different position at the last minute.

I am looking forward to not being stuck in traffic at Leslie. That intersection is single-handedly responsible for making my commute way longer than it needs to be

 

[Chaplinurbex]

I am looking forward to not being stuck in traffic at Leslie. That intersection is single-handedly responsible for making my commute way longer than it needs to be

Same goes for approaching Avenue and Allan westbound on the 32. It can take 10 minutes to go 2 blocks, all because of cars trying to get to the 401.

 

[jmi22]

They will never be fixed.

Stop with the copium.

Hey! I'll have you know City Staff have been diligently studying fixes for the Spadina LRT ....I mean 510 streetcar..... since 1991 and we expect a report back to council full of super duper helpful recommendations anytime now!

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

An official maybe...

From https://www.ttc.ca/riding-the-ttc/line-5-eglinton

Coming Soon – Line 5 Eglinton: 19 kilometres. 25 new stations. Mount Dennis to Kennedy and everywhere in between.​

Line 5 Eglinton is 19 kilometres of light rail transit connecting customers along Eglinton Avenue from Mount Dennis Station in the west to Kennedy Station in the east.

Line 5 Eglinton offers seamless interchange connections to Line 1 (Yonge-University) at Cedarvale and Eglinton stations, Line 2 (Bloor-Danforth) at Kennedy Station along with GO Transit and UP Express connections at Mount Dennis and GO Transit at Kennedy. This much-anticipated new line will provide customers with fast, reliable and convenient transit across Eglinton Avenue.

What to know:

• Line 5 is 19 kilometres long and will take you from Mount Dennis to Kennedy stations and everywhere in between.
• Easy connections to TTC Line 1 and Line 2 subways, 68 TTC bus routes, GO Transit and UP Express!
• Onboard fare payment is not available. Tap your PRESTO, credit or debit card or your mobile wallet BEFORE boarding the vehicle.
• Vehicles are modern and accessible. They feature level boarding platforms, priority seating and clear audio-visual announcements. Plus, underground stations include elevators from street to track level, wide fare gates, tactile guidance and more.

The fully accessible Line 5 will improve the quality and reliability of TTC service along this busy corridor, supporting the growth of surrounding neighbourhoods and communities.

About Line 5 Eglinton:

The TTC serves as the operator for Line 5 Eglinton, bringing more than a century of expertise as North America’s third busiest public transit agency. Under agreements with Metrolinx and the City of Toronto, the TTC is responsible for operating trains, providing security and revenue control, and staffing stations to ensure a high level of customer satisfaction. The line’s infrastructure and vehicles are maintained by Crosslinx Transit Solutions (CTS) under contract to Metrolinx. As operator, the TTC works in close partnership with Metrolinx, the City, and project partners to deliver safe, reliable, and efficient service, integrating Line 5 Eglinton into Toronto’s broader transit.

 

[Burnt creek]

A couple of weeks ago, there was a lengthy service disruption in areas of King Stn (I believe) and it was during rush hour. Trains and commuters were stopped and not moving for very long periods. We have all seen similar interruptions in service for a variety reasons (i.e.: repair work, or emergencies) on many portions of line 1.over the years.

One of the great benefits of this line ( and needed for a long time) is that it will allow commuter to bypass these service interruptions by just taking the trains in the opposite direction and using the Eglinton cross town to cross back to the other line. Plus, it will be only 3 stops between the Yonge side of line 1 and the University side. There is nothing you can do about such disruptions if they occur north of Eglinton but this line should help ALOT to alleviate commuter frustration in many of these disruptions.

PS.: Also, there was another occurrence at rush hour last summer where all passengers were forced off the train at Davisville and told to take a bus from there. I have never been able to get on bus when that happens. You could wait hours. Eventually, the service resumes before I ever manage to get on a bus. Again, here is another example where this line should be like GOLD to commuters.

 

[Burnt creek]

I am going to go on limb and predict that there will be no where near the type of criticism of this line compared to Line 6 (FWLRT). First of all ,the station spacing west of Don Mills seems reasonable to me. East of Don Mills could be another story though. But still, most of the line should allow for reasonable commute times, moreso with grade separation. Also, there is great connectivity options with this service. For example, The UP express should see a surge in demand because this line opens up access to UP express to much much greater number of the population. You will have more options going to the airport if you live in Mid town or North York or parts of Scarborough. Unlike previously, whereby it (UP express) pretty much just took you from airport to down town, but what about everyone else who doesn't live downtown and needs to get to the airport? Lastly, most commuters wont have to freeze their A$$es off (or get soaked in the rain) waiting outside on those poor shelters, this line makes the waiting much much more bare able.

 

[yurt2022]

But still, most of the line should allow for reasonable commute times

A trip of 112 minutes is not a reasonable commute time...

We already know this line will have the same opening problems as Finch West given its extremely padded schedules.

In addition, there are rumours of slow zones in the tunnels due to track quality/construction and TTC "safety" standards.

I'd be very surprised if the trains ever reach 80 KM/H in the tunneled portion. We already know Line 1 trains have been kneecapped at 75 when ATC was introduced, when they used to go 80+.

 

[hw621]

A trip of 112 minutes is not a reasonable commute time...

We already know this line will have the same opening problems as Finch West given its extremely padded schedules.

In addition, there are rumours of slow zones in the tunnels due to track quality/construction and TTC "safety" standards.

I'd be very surprised if the trains ever reach 80 KM/H in the tunneled portion. We already know Line 1 trains have been kneecapped at 75 when ATC was introduced, when they used to go 80+.

What stupidity of the TTC

Track quality of a brand new line?!

 

[nfitz]

A trip of 112 minutes is not a reasonable commute time...

I'm not sure what 112 is ... that would be 2 or 3 transfers.

 

[yurt2022]

I'm not sure what 112 is ... that would be 2 or 3 transfers.

From Kennedy - Mount Dennis.

Nearly 2 hours and you're not even reaching city limits.

 

[micheal_can]

If we use rush hour as a test bed for speed, and we use alternative methods of traveling from terminus to terminus, what should be the fastest in order of the following: Line 5, car, bike, walk, run?

My thinking is during rush hour, Line 5 should be the fastest.

 

[urbanclient]

From Kennedy - Mount Dennis.

Nearly 2 hours and you're not even reaching city limits.

K correction here, Kennedy to Mount Dennis would be 50 minutes. Not the advertised 38 minutes. 112 minutes is for a round trip which presumably includes 12 minutes of recovery time where the vehicle might turn around or at least do nothing at the terminus.

The underground section was always supposed to take about 21 minutes, and the eastern section 17 minutes for a total of 38 minutes. But the eastern actually takes 29 minutes which makes the end-to-end travel times 50 minutes.

29 minutes is 70% slower than 17 minutes LOL. Did they even try to hit this target? Until the Line 6 FW backlash, they had tried nothing and were all out of ideas.

It would also be the death knell, if they drive Line 5 like a streetcar in the eastern above ground section.

[edit] ***Breaking news***

I was right. Line 5 Eglinton is completely cooked. Assuming 12 minutes recovery time at terminuses. The round trip is in fact 100 minutes, or 50 minutes end-to-end.

- Myers: what is the estimated run time for Line 5. TTC staff: contractual number for round trip time is 98 minutes during rush hour and 90 minutes outside rush hour
- The current schedule we have for RSD is currently scheduling 112 minutes round trip
- Myers: are there any measures being considered to speed up the runtime? TTC staff: Any moves would have to be done in consideration with Mosaic and Metrolinx. At this point in time cannot say there are alternatives being discussed.

I am going to go on limb and predict that there will be no where near the type of criticism of this line compared to Line 6 (FWLRT).

We shall see... If they can't properly do short-turns, there might be no way to mitigate the inevitable bunching and delays on the non-ATC surface section. And no, it's not the fact that there is a transition between underground ATC to surface manual operations that causes bunching. Nor is it the fact that there exists an underground and surface section that causes bunching. Just in case someone tries strawmanning me about how it's mathematically impossible for bunching to occur as if this is a high school physics question where friction is non-existent. Only on well programmed ATC and ATO systems i.e. semi-automated and fully automated can bunching potentially be eliminated.

One-off delays like a car hitting the tram, or a snow plow clogging up the tracks with snow would only happen on the surface section.

I made an edit earlier "[...]Dwell times are often longer and less consistent than metros due to bottlenecked boarding and alighting inherent in tram design."

We're not saying bunching occurs because someone fell asleep at the wheel and decided to idle at one stop for 4 minutes. We're saying bunching occurs due to cascading, compounding delays. For example, a driver that is just 1 minute slower at the halfway point, a green light that is missed by a few seconds leading to a 60 second red light, a handicapped passenger taking longer to board, a rowdy passenger refusing to pay their fare, a call from dispatch to hold 30 seconds longer at one stop, higher passenger traffic at one stop etc... etc...

In theory, the 510 Spadina shouldn't bunch with 7'45" headways on Saturday afternoons, but literally every time I'm on it at that time I see bunching. 506 Carlton had 9 minute headways today, and yet I could see two 506s within metres of each other going westbound near Yonge:
View attachment 706614
Longer headways only help prevent bunching in the same manner that excess schedule padding prevents bunching (see TTC schedules 24/7 365). It doesn't solve the underlying deficiencies inherent in design. Here's proof of Line 6 Finch West bunching, the train behind going eastbound is only 6 masts west of another train arriving at the Driftwood eastbound stop, or about 150 metres away:
View attachment 706615View attachment 706616

Line 5 Eglinton, if opened on February 8th, will have had only 53 days since the last Council motion was passed to speed up the LRTs and streetcars.

There won't be stronger TSP on opening. The main reason for the opening being delayed from late 2025 to 2026 had little to do with the weak TSP. Even then, better TSP could theoretically reduce bunching, but not eliminate it. You can look up the rumoured reasons for the Dec '25 - Feb? '26 delayed opening on Reddit and Steve Munro's website. https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2025.MM35.15

 

[yurt2022]

K correction here, Kennedy to Mount Dennis would be 50 minutes. Not the advertised 38 minutes. 112 minutes is for a round trip which presumably includes 12 minutes of recovery time where the vehicle might turn around or at least do nothing at the terminus.

The underground section was always supposed to take about 21 minutes, and the eastern section 17 minutes for a total of 38 minutes. But the eastern actually takes 29 minutes which makes the end-to-end travel times 50 minutes.

29 minutes is 70% slower than 17 minutes LOL. Did they even try to hit this target? Until the Line 6 FW backlash, they had tried nothing and were all out of ideas.






We shall see... If they can't properly do short-turns, there might be no way to mitigate the inevitable bunching and delays on the non-ATC surface section. And no, it's not the fact that there is a transition between underground ATC to surface manual operations that causes bunching. Nor is it the fact that there exists an underground and surface section that causes bunching. Just in case someone tries strawmanning me about how it's mathematically impossible for bunching to occur as if this is a high school physics question where friction is non-existent. Only on well programmed ATC and ATO systems i.e. semi-automated and fully automated can bunching potentially be eliminated.

One-off delays like a car hitting the tram, or a snow plow clogging up the tracks with snow would only happen on the surface section.


Line 5 Eglinton, if opened on February 8th, will have had only 53 days since the last Council motion was passed to speed up the LRTs and streetcars.

There won't be stronger TSP on opening. The main reason for the opening being delayed from late 2025 to 2026 had little to do with the weak TSP. Even then, better TSP could theoretically reduce bunching, but not eliminate it. You can look up the rumoured reasons for the Dec '25 - Feb? '26 delayed opening on Reddit and Steve Munro's website. https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2025.MM35.15

What needs to happen is an uprooting of TTC management and staff that have promoted all these terrible operating practices over the last decade.

There needs to be a Stalin style purge at the TTC, and Byford needs to be brought back.

 

[nfitz]

From Kennedy - Mount Dennis.

Nearly 2 hours and you're not even reaching city limits.

Where are you getting that number from. Do you have a reference? Perhaps that's the round-trip time, including the layovers at the terminals?