PM Mark Carney's Canada

[Admiral Beez]

Carney in Davos today:

"Middle powers must act together because if you are not at the table, you are on the menu."
"The old order is not coming back. We should not mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy. But from the fracture, we can build something better, stronger and more just."

I'm glad we have a well-connected, experienced and educated, contemplative pragmatist at the helm. Pearson and Mulroney are often regarded as two of Canada’s best prime ministers for foreign policy. If he can get us to 2030 with an intact and globally-diversifying economy, strong global trade agreements, alliances and relationships, and a secure border with sensible immigration/asylum regs, IMO Carney can join them.

 

[narduch]

Carney is playing this right but he might want to start using an synonym for 'order' as the RWNJs are going to keep having a field day with that one

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

Carney is playing this right but he might want to start using an synonym for 'order' as the RWNJs are going to keep having a field day with that one

I assume by 'order' he means the 'rules-based international order' without spelling it out. What word would you have him use instead?

 

[zang]

I assume by 'order' he means the 'rules-based international order' without spelling it out. What word would you have him use instead?

In that context, "old guard" would probably have been more appropriate (and accurate).

 

[narduch]

I assume by 'order' he means the 'rules-based international order' without spelling it out. What word would you have him use instead?

I know what he is trying to say but we've already seen from his words when he was in China that they are being twisted

 

[kEiThZ]

I heard on the radio today that for the first time in many decades, Canada's military has recently gamed out a hypothetical US invasion, and what our response would be (something was mentioned about Afghanistan type resistance, but I didn't quite catch the details). Need thoughts from @kEiThZ

Table top war games are fun.....and can be kinda depressing.

 

[nightstreak]

Carney in Davos today:

"Middle powers must act together because if you are not at the table, you are on the menu."
"The old order is not coming back. We should not mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy. But from the fracture, we can build something better, stronger and more just."

I sleep better at night knowing that Mark Carney is our Prime Minister guiding us through this period and reinventing our place in the world. I can not think of anyone better qualified for this moment.

When Trump inevitably loses his encounter with a cheeseburger and MAGA fizzles out — it's a cult of personality and relies entirely on its cult leader — then Canada will be positioned far better as a partner with the United States because we'll have rebuilt and decentralized our global partnerships independent of the US. We'll always be neighbours so our trade partnerships will inevitably return but I don't think the United States will ever recover its former position of global influence because nobody will ever trust it again — even with Trump long gone.

 

[Towered]

Table top war games are fun.....and can be kinda depressing.

Rather ominous and cryptic...

Any further insights into what the military would be bracing for, and what the best strategy for defense would be? I can't imagine that anything robust would actually be possible...

 

[kEiThZ]

Rather ominous and cryptic...

Any further insights into what the military would be bracing for, and what the best strategy for defense would be? I can't imagine that anything robust would actually be possible...

As the articles said. Go to ground. Plan to fight an insurgency.

Which isn't easy. Aside from the obvious things, like little to no capability and support to do this (most successful insurgencies have safe havens and foreign backers), any competent invasion would probably have a counterinsurgency that would round up anybody they suspect would be trouble. So, most CAF members.

 

[nightstreak]

Rather ominous and cryptic...

Any further insights into what the military would be bracing for, and what the best strategy for defense would be? I can't imagine that anything robust would actually be possible...

The United States underestimates Canadians at their peril. And it's an advantage that we're underestimated. They'd be provoking a fight with a country that shares the world's longest international (porous) border against a population who speaks the same language and shares a similar cultural makeup and appearance that would enable us to blend in seamlessly with Americans. Not only would Trump be fighting Canadians, he'd spark a hot or cold civil war with Blue States who'd at the very least look away while we blend into their country, if not outright support us. It would not end well for the Red States, I know that much.

 

[picard102]

I sleep better at night knowing that Mark Carney is our Prime Minister guiding us through this period and reinventing our place in the world. I can not think of anyone better qualified for this moment.

When Trump inevitably loses his encounter with a cheeseburger and MAGA fizzles out — it's a cult of personality and relies entirely on its cult leader — then Canada will be positioned far better as a partner with the United States because we'll have rebuilt and decentralized our global partnerships independent of the US. We'll always be neighbours so our trade partnerships will inevitably return but I don't think the United States will ever recover its former position of global influence because nobody will ever trust it again — even with Trump long gone.

MAGA is not going to fizzle out. They will find someone new to carry the banner. This is America now, there is no going back.

 

[kEiThZ]

When Trump inevitably loses his encounter with a cheeseburger and MAGA fizzles out — it's a cult of personality and relies entirely on its cult leader — then Canada will be positioned far better as a partner with the United States because we'll have rebuilt and decentralized our global partnerships independent of the US. We'll always be neighbours so our trade partnerships will inevitably return but I don't think the United States will ever recover its former position of global influence because nobody will ever trust it again — even with Trump long gone.

I am not optimistic. Post-Trump this won't get much better. You'll have crazies trying to outcrazy Trump trying to keep his base. Starting with his VP. Best we can hope for is that their energies are aimed domestically. We have to accept that we will have a worse quality of life going forward. Higher unemployment. Less prosperity. Start with that. Figure out how to work with that to keep the country together.

Think of what Trudeau did after the first Trump term. Aside from Covid, ran up huge deficits on social programs that did nothing to improve the country economically. And then let in millions of immigrants to crush wages and prop up real estate prices. Look how angry and divded we are as a result. Now imagine what a prolonged economic war will do to us and what it will take to keep the country together.

 

[Northern Light]

Carney in Davos today:

"Middle powers must act together because if you are not at the table, you are on the menu."
"The old order is not coming back. We should not mourn it. Nostalgia is not a strategy. But from the fracture, we can build something better, stronger and more just."

His speech, interestingly, attracted a standing ovation at the end. Not the norm in Davos, which is more the respectful applause type of place.

I don't think of Carney as one for the Standing O type of oration, but it seems he hit a good note that resonated. (to be clear it was not a hoot n' holla reaction, but people did stand)

Here's a link to his full speech:

Speech begins ~1:45 and runs to the 19 minute mark or so.

 

[kEiThZ]

The United States underestimates Canadians at their peril. And it's an advantage that we're underestimated. They'd be provoking a fight with a country that shares the world's longest international (porous) border against a population who speaks the same language and shares a similar cultural makeup and appearance that would enable us to blend in seamlessly with Americans. Not only would Trump be fighting Canadians, he'd spark a civil war with Blue States. It would not end well for the Americans, I know that much.

Tough talk is easy. You understand that Canada would be destroyed too right? People you love might get killed. Everybody would be impoverished. Etc.

 

[nightstreak]

Tough talk is easy.

It's not tough talk, it's the reality of the situation. With the factors outlined, an insurgency would not only be likely but inevitable. The US lost Vietnam and Afghanistan with much lesser factors at play. Taking over Canada cannot be done by force, it would require generations of populist control, Soviet style. In other words, how Russia has taken over the United States.

You understand that Canada would be destroyed too right? People you love might get killed. Everybody would be impoverished. Etc.

Yes, I'm aware. It's a war, not a high school squirmish.