Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
But... but... but... they save money using the same heaters. (Must have been bought on a "bulk order" discount.)
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Finch West Line 6 LRT
- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
Steve X
Senior Member
The viva rapid ways took a long time to build too, they had to widen the roadway, relocate utilities and everything except track installation. It wasn’t exactly cheap either so I don’t recommend doing that either.
416InTrouble
Active Member
Incorrect VIVA was between 60 and 70% cheaper than Finch when you compare the same km and guess what? Buses run when it snows or is cold out.
jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
The TTC used to plow their own ROWs before that duty was taken over by the City public works department. They had snow sweepers and plow cars until the late '70s.
Once the City took over plowing the ROWs they got rid of them. The expansion and increase in frequency of the Blue Night streetcar services also helped with keeping streetcar tracks clear as the streetcars themselves would clear their own flangeways and overhead wires and the need to throw frequently used switches overnight helps keep them clear of any buildup of ice, snow and other debris during the winter as well. The other big factor in why the TTC doesn't have a need to clear snow along it's own ROWs comes down to the hours of service of the streetcar network itself. The gap between when revenue service ends and when revenue service begins again is small. Then there's the non-revenue runs to and from the carhouses on top that also contribute to the networks passive snow clearing abilities.
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hw621
Senior Member
Except they also sit behind red lights and yield to left turning cars lol
urbanclient
Active Member
I saved money on my bulk order of electric toilet bowl propellers, the infomercial said they'd increase the speed of the spinning water by 20%! Better for the planet than gas powered propellers. A cleaner flush every time! Guaranteed!But... but... but... they save money using the same heaters. (Must have been bought on a "bulk order" discount.)
In other news, I have 96 extra toilet bowl propellers if anyone wants some.
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doady
Senior Member
Something like Viva Rapidway along Finch would require articulated buses, which do not operate well in snow. The buses would also have to come every 2 minutes in each direction, which would make signal priority not possible.
A 6264
Active Member
How kind of you to share your toilet propellers. Some people wouldn't give a flying t**d.
416InTrouble
Active Member
Wrong again - they DO have transit priority lights and… You’re obviously not a tax payer.
416InTrouble
Active Member
lol wrong. The finch 36 doesn’t come every two minutes but nice try. Especially not the ones that have to run when the LRT is broken or not running and end up blocking the reduced lane ways that motorists now have to contend with because literally everyone at Metrolinx is incapable.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
The only big hill on Finch is between Dufferin and Bathurst. And there are no stops on the hills so buses can build momentum. Besides the LRT doesn't run there anyway.
They recently relaid the serwer pipes there and the roadway is wide enough to handle two more lanes until The Branson hospital area. Donno what they would do there. The question is if it was ever extended to Yonge St would they use the transit way row or would it go along Finch?
robmausser
Senior Member
Steve X
Senior Member
The cost you see is the capital cost of those rapidways don't include purchasing two sets of buses (one set will not last 30 years), the maintenance of the buses, nor the maintenance of the rapidway itself for 30 years. Since we don't know what the actual capital cost was for Finch nor do we know the total cost of VIVA, you are just comparing apples to oranges.
Considering their ridership and infrequent service, those rapidways were a huge waste of money for York Region. They might be better for Finch but having them in the middle still means they might get stuck behind traffic lights and have to stop twice. As mention, buses especially artic buses get stuck on hills easily so they have their own downfall.
TRONto
Active Member
For just construction costs:
I found part of the VIVA extension at about $30 million/km in 2014 dollars - https://canada.constructconnect.com...d-2605-million-vivanext-contract-dcn059977w-2
Construction cost for Finch was about $100 million/km in 2018 dollars
urbantoronto.ca
I found part of the VIVA extension at about $30 million/km in 2014 dollars - https://canada.constructconnect.com...d-2605-million-vivanext-contract-dcn059977w-2
Construction cost for Finch was about $100 million/km in 2018 dollars
Finch West Line 6 LRT
"overdesigning, the cycle of lack of knowledge retention reliance on external consultants, inflated soft costs" Yeah, but lots of people including myself like to be technically correct. So there is a lot of "ummm ackshually, TTC/Metrolinx aren't that wasteful, we don't have slave labour and we...
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urbanclient
Active Member
For just construction costs:
I found part of the VIVA extension at about $30 million/km in 2014 dollars - https://canada.constructconnect.com...d-2605-million-vivanext-contract-dcn059977w-2
Construction cost for Finch was about $100 million/km in 2018 dollars
Finch West Line 6 LRT
"overdesigning, the cycle of lack of knowledge retention reliance on external consultants, inflated soft costs" Yeah, but lots of people including myself like to be technically correct. So there is a lot of "ummm ackshually, TTC/Metrolinx aren't that wasteful, we don't have slave labour and we...
What exactly do you mean by construction cost? It was ostensibly intended to be ~$100 million/km back in 2018 or whenever the first contract was signed, but myriad change orders stemming from the DBFM P3 model inevitably doubled the construction cost. Thinking Line 6 was ever going to cost $100 million/km in capital costs is naive and unrealistic.
The total contract is now valued at $3.745 billion at least. Including $1.2 billion for 30 year maintenance.
7+ years ago:
"Toronto, Ontario – May 7, 2018: Aecon Group Inc. (TSX: ARE) announced today that Mosaic Transit Group has reached commercial and financial close on the previously disclosed Finch West Light Rail Transit (LRT) project in Toronto. The total contract is valued at $2.5 billion, which includes $1.2 billion of construction costs."
As for the pedantry regarding 2014 or 2018 dollars, someone else chime in how Metrolinx calculates costs, because they accrue over time. Also, a dollar paid in 2019 is not worth the same as a dollar paid in 2025 for a project in progress over 6 years.