Mihairokov
Senior Member
I've been told the new Cafe at Adelaide & George is more furniture store than cafe.
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St Lawrence Market
- Thread starter dt_toronto_geek
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DSCToronto
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Tender call for work on South Market.
mburrrrr
Senior Member
The roof is starting to tarnish.
AI overview
Typical timeline
Factors influencing speed
How to speed it up
Union Station roof is copper but brown so… 7 years old? EDIT Roof is 13 years old
Royal York roof age? EDIT some/all? 30+ years (possibly 1988-1993)
AI overview
Typical timeline
- 0-1 year: Bright, metallic orange/reddish-brown.
- 1-7 years: Darkens to deep brown (oxidation).
- 7-30+ years: The green patina (malachite/azurite) slowly forms as carbonates and sulfates build up, with coastal/industrial areas reaching this faster.
Factors influencing speed
- Moisture & Humidity: High moisture accelerates patina formation significantly.
- Pollution: Sulfur dioxide in industrial or urban areas speeds up the process.
- Salt Air: Coastal areas with salt spray age copper much faster.
- Climate: Warm, humid tropics accelerate it; cool, dry areas slow it down.
- Surface Orientation: Horizontal surfaces can weather differently than vertical ones.
How to speed it up
- Artificial Solutions: Mild acids and chemicals can create a pre-aged look in days, applied by experienced professionals.
Union Station roof is copper but brown so… 7 years old? EDIT Roof is 13 years old
Royal York roof age? EDIT some/all? 30+ years (possibly 1988-1993)
- 1988–1993 Restoration: A five-year, $100 million refurbishment project that reinvigorated the hotel's historical façade, including its renowned copper roof and ornate Chateau Style detailing.
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mburrrrr
Senior Member
Union Station roof installed in 2013.It does not appear they will try to keep the copper from turning green like it used to be. They would have to clean it and treat it the same day judging by how quickly it oxidizes. It’s also a very large roof to try and maintain that pretty sparkle.
January 08
The RBC reflection is very cool for lack of a better expression.
Jan 10
It seems to crank it up for The Southcore Financial Tower across the tracks, to the point of opposing shadows. (December 13th pic)
junctionist
Senior Member
I love that copper changes its colour that way. I love the sheen when it's new, as well as the green patina when it's old (especially when the original architect matched the copper trim well with the facade materials and considered how the building would look when the copper turned green).
I find the matte brown stage of oxidization to be the most boring stage in copper cladding's lifespan, but it's purely subjective. It's striking to see a Victorian building clad with a material that has kind of sheen. It looks cutting-edge modern when new, yet it's a material that's been used for centuries.
I find the matte brown stage of oxidization to be the most boring stage in copper cladding's lifespan, but it's purely subjective. It's striking to see a Victorian building clad with a material that has kind of sheen. It looks cutting-edge modern when new, yet it's a material that's been used for centuries.
DSCToronto
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It appears that the City intend to spread the 'decommissioning" of the St Lawrence Market Tent over 4 or 5 years! No doubt a wall a year.
Hard to see how this fits with this Member Motion from July 2025.
Hard to see how this fits with this Member Motion from July 2025.
toonderly
Active Member
Where are you seeing the 5 years to remove the temporary structure? My understanding is that the structure is supposed to be taken down and an "interim park" ready in time for FIFA, while the more permanent solution would take 5 years (although since the library is going to be at Queen & Parliament I am no longer clear on what the permanent result is supposed to be).
DSCToronto
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One would like to think so but the budget is being allocated to Real Estate $2,130,000 is spread over 4 years. I think Staff are not happy to see the block returned to Parks but IF the MM is to be carried out I think it would be a Parks project not one in Real Estate Management. @Northern Light may have an opinion? (Of course he will, and it will be useful :->)
Northern Light
Superstar
First, a bit of clarity, you added one too many zeroes. CREM has $213,000 (not 2.1M)
With the caveat that I've not made any inquiries on this project.
I would read the 70k in 2026 as fully removing the tent structure, and the subsequent spending as addressing, either remediation or capping.
I doubt they would remediate at this stage, they would probably resurface/cap with pavement or concrete and mostly put planters and seats on top for an interim effort.
I think the budget probably includes the capping and maybe some bases for lighting poles or something like that. I expect Transportation will be dinged for the sidewalk/cycle track facility at some point.
I don't think the budget is large enough to cover an interim condition park, but it really depends on what you throw at it. The site will need some sort of lighting. My guess after that would be that you 'borrow' the furniture from Market Street (ie. same planters, same benches/tables, and you put down a dozen planters, and 8-12 tables/benches, along with a couple of waste receptacles.
Still, commercial grade outdoor furniture is $5,000-$15,000 a pop so the budget doesn't seem to cover that.
My guess is that Parks will fund it out of this line item, since the park space here was originally part of this project:
They probably need ~$300,000 for a very basic interim setup, if they go that route, but if they aren't being ...... silly, that's the nice word, LOL..... this would be handled as a change order on SLA's design contract, then do the same for the builder here; and go straight the permanent park. This is a small space, SLA has a clear vision, they can tack this on in their sleep in 3 months and have it ready for 2027 for construction.
Now if going permanent. I think a budget of about 6M should suffice to deliver a very good product here (excluding any remediation costs) You could certainly spend more, but you don't need to.
It'll take a year to clear, clean and cap the site anyway.
****
Just to post the timing on the Crombie project here:
There is no other sensible choice here than hiring the existing designers, who already familiar w/the area, the original plans, to take this on.
It would be silly to pay for things twice here.
DSCToronto
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The City has re-opened Market Street for vehicles and parking. Based on a motion from OCTOBER 2023, Staff are supposedly working on a 'procedure' to keep it closed all the time and not go through these annual closures year after year. How long can it possibly take to sort this out??
reinventingthewheel
Active Member
Big King streetcar backup right now. A transport truck hit one of the traffic light poles at King/Sherbourne, SE corner King light (no photos, phone dead).
The streetcar catenary is hung from the same pole. So not only is the pole precariously leaning into the road (~10°) but the catenary is also hanging more loosely and misaligned from track centre.
I got the rare treat of seeing streetcars escorted in reverse back to King/Church for a detour on Queen. I expect the closure will remain for at least 24hrs (probably also for cars, it looks like a tricky situation).
The streetcar catenary is hung from the same pole. So not only is the pole precariously leaning into the road (~10°) but the catenary is also hanging more loosely and misaligned from track centre.
I got the rare treat of seeing streetcars escorted in reverse back to King/Church for a detour on Queen. I expect the closure will remain for at least 24hrs (probably also for cars, it looks like a tricky situation).
DSCToronto
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Hmmm.... I assume it is actually easier to run streetcars in reverse with the pantograph. With poles it was painfully slow.
toonderly
Active Member
Thanks -- I was trying to figure out why the road was closed when I went out to No Frills last night.
CityPainter
Active Member
I noticed there's new building permit in the city database for 12 Market St, dated Jan 9, 2026.
12 Market St is the narrow unit most recently used as an overflow seating space for Balzac's. A few years before that, it was home to the Evolution Food Co / Garden Gangsters vegan restaurant.
The permit is for "Restaurant 30 seats or less. Proposal to relocate existing mechanical to accommodate food service equipment. The space was an existing cafe and just changing things around."
12 Market St is the narrow unit most recently used as an overflow seating space for Balzac's. A few years before that, it was home to the Evolution Food Co / Garden Gangsters vegan restaurant.
The permit is for "Restaurant 30 seats or less. Proposal to relocate existing mechanical to accommodate food service equipment. The space was an existing cafe and just changing things around."
Lisa1956
New Member
well received by the local community? Really? So locals are happy with the backlog on Front, Jarvis, all the way down to the on-ramp? I don't think so, hence the police on point duty during "rush" hour. All those cars are full of people who have done a day's work and want to go home, do they not get any consideration? The traffic needs to move unobstructed thru the downtown core, drivers frequently get frustrated/impatient and end up blocking the intersections/pedestrians. The economic focus on recreation is a bit alarming, it's all spas/casinos/loitering, like nothing else is profitable for the city, yet all those new office buildings full of real people with lives/homes not in the core. I don't like the little Market Street detour cut off, having it open again feels much more normal to me.