crs1026
Superstar
There's an ex GO APCU in a museum in Florida, in deplorable condition. It won't be coming back.
- Paul
- Paul
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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation
- Thread starter CDL.TO
- Start date
StreetcarRider
New Member
A question: why not also run it as a cottager express?It’s not intended as the cottager express.
Toronto's long-awaited direct train to Muskoka is closer than ever to reality
Toronto is officially one step closer to getting a direct train to Muskoka as the long-awaited Northlander prepares to return to Ontario's rail netwo…www.blogto.com
Is ONR going to have to introduce 3rd class “poor cars” to accommodate those riding past the millionaire retreats, into, well, the northlands?
The stated reason for cancelling the Northlander was the very high subsidy. The stated reason for the new Northlander is assisting northlanders in getting in and out of Toronto for medical appointments and other necessities without having to stay the night, and (long-term) developing the ring of fire.
A cottager express to Muskoka could bring in revenue to reduce the subsidy. It strikes me that a train carrying King/Bay types back and forth from the cottage on the weekend, where the rest of the family spends the summer, would be popular if it arrived in cottage country before the kids' bedtime and got into Toronto near the start of the workday. Same thing for getting groups of summer campers in and out of the GTA safely. But operations would need to be different than the current proposal.
Also: why is there no sleeper car if the service is designed to run overnight?
crs1026
Superstar
Actually, that is a potential market, as has been discussed at length here. The politics however mean delivering to the communities in the North first. For the moment, it will likely be positioned as "their" train. That doesn't mean that there won't be outreach and marketing to places further south.
And note that the schedule very much favours ridership from North Bay south to Toronto. If you run it, they will come, we hope.
Because there is no proven, Transport-Canada certified sleeper design on the market that could be procured in such a small quantity in a reasonable timeframe and cost envelope.
I do hope ONR experiments with better overnight amenities, but that is a work in progress.
- Paul
lenaitch
Senior Member
And a steamer as well if I recall (503?) but I doubt the dynamo would provide much in the way of HEP.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
For cottage go'ers the train leaves at 6:10 from Toronto and gets to Huntsville for around 9.
That is enough time to finish work at 5:00 on Friday and head downtown and be at Union 30min before departure and be at the cottage around 9.
Imagine leaving downtown at 6pm on a Thursday during a thunderstorm or a snow storm, head up the DVP to Newmarket, across green land to the 400 and then both to Huntsville? Just getting to Newmarket is probably 2 hours if you are lucky. So if you are meeting up with your friends that can pick you up at the station, I think that schedule works.
Southbound at 8:40am is a bit early but maybe for long weekends they can have an extra evening train from North Bay to Toronto.
That is enough time to finish work at 5:00 on Friday and head downtown and be at Union 30min before departure and be at the cottage around 9.
Imagine leaving downtown at 6pm on a Thursday during a thunderstorm or a snow storm, head up the DVP to Newmarket, across green land to the 400 and then both to Huntsville? Just getting to Newmarket is probably 2 hours if you are lucky. So if you are meeting up with your friends that can pick you up at the station, I think that schedule works.
Southbound at 8:40am is a bit early but maybe for long weekends they can have an extra evening train from North Bay to Toronto.
micheal_can
Senior Member
The issue isn't getting up there. The issue is how do you get to your cottage?
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Taxi from the train station? I'm sure that this will result in more micro transit opportunities in cottage county.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I have a friend who has a cottage on Oxbow Lake.The cost of taxi to it would be prohibitive. Ford has a cottage in Port Carling. Someone like him would not use it as it also would be cost prohibitive. Maybe some sort of micro transit will happen, but certainly not the first summer.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Port Carling is not that far from Bracebridge.
It's likely not for the whole family to take the train to go to the cottage but rather someone who doesn't have a car taking the train to meet with friends or family who can pick them up at the station.
StreetcarRider
New Member
Exactly. If the kids are little (say under 10), the spouse at the cottage cannot reasonably be expected to leave them alone after bedtime to pick up the other spouse at the train station. The service plan should serve the reasonable needs of riders.
And to be clear: I'm not suggesting that everybody cater to rich Muskoka cottagers for any reason other than reducing the public subsidy for the Ontario Northland train so that it doesn't get cancelled again in the future, leaving northerners once again without service.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
There are partners like Hammond that could work with ONR to provide shuttle service to those smaller communities that the train does not service. I don't know why the province didn't look at those kinds of agreements.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Carrying on with this fun cottage-commuter train concept, getting people to communities in Muskoka wouldn't be the issue; getting people to their cottage would be, and not many cottages are in the towns. Unless you are a 'townie' or have a cottage in a town, it's still a last mile problem.
I'm not sure how this becomes a provincial or ONR problem. 'Here's our schedule; if you think there is money in meeting the train, go nuts'. Does VIA partner with the transit authorities in every town it touches?
dowlingm
Senior Member
Nobody can buy locomotives from Idaho any more. Maybe from Erie, where Wabtec's blueprints live now.
As far as LD trains go, one thought would be for VIA to consider freight locomotives on the head end and a generator coach behind, if that would allow them to leverage CN parts depots along Canadian and Ocean's routes, even if that would hold maximum speeds to 75mph.
nfitz
Superstar
Unfortunate.
Oh well, we shouldn't be buying American crap anymore anyhow ... at the rate that the orange turd is going, we'll be at war with them - so that will make parts difficult.
Get a European design built by Alstom or something. Change the Canadian regulations to use something more normal.
crs1026
Superstar
We do need more of this first mile/last mile integration..... but the Northlander is not the place to put a priority. Chatham, Ingersoll, Woodstock, Brantford, Stratford, St Catherines, Cobourg, Belleville and Smiths Falls might be better places to work these things out. Gravenhurst, Bracebridge, Huntsville and North Bay would then have more data to copy.
- Paul