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Finch West Line 6 LRT

Two additional pieces of commentary.

1) Adam

View attachment 707082

2) Sean Marshall

If Adam believes the cost of LRT construction can be brought down, then why can't the same be said for subway construction?
 
If Adam believes the cost of LRT construction can be brought down, then why can't the same be said for subway construction?
Well part of it is certainly the fact that the city insists on building subways the most expensive way possible. There are also no doubt other bureaucratic reasons and also the English speaking world in general can no longer build public transit for a reasonable cost anymore. That's not just me saying it either there was an actual study done that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the US have some of the highest transit construction costs on earth for some reason. If I had to narrow down the big culprits though, I would say its: choosing the most expensive construction methods (e.g deep bores), to many consultants, to many regulations, lack of institutionalized knowledge, an unwillingness to look at examples from abroad ("we are special snowflakes and things that work somewhere else won't work here", and "every solution needs to be invented here"), and a genuine fear of upsetting a vocal minority.

To me bringing down construction costs will require loosening regulations, ending the consultant grift, building institutional knowledge (both by eliminating consultants and doing more work in house, looking at you Metrolinx), looking at other countries to see how they solved problems (many solutions they use will work here if we try hard enough), using cheaper alignments and construction methods (e.g cut & cover, at-grade, and elevated), and lastly a little iron-fisted rule to eliminate opposition and end the fear of angering a small number of home/business owners. That latter won't happen if politicians view the future only as far as the next election and fear loosing more then seeing the bigger long-term picture. Short-term thinking won't get us anywhere and that's why the bulk of Toronto transit construction occurred during a period when the incumbent party (PC's) had little fear of loosing the next election (until they did). Lastly we need to take a page out of LA's play book and stop building lines in a one-off manner. We need to have a comprehensive 30 year plan that everyone agrees on and has political support at the municipal and provincial levels. This plan isn't just a list of nice to haves but an actual costed out plan that we all agree will be built out in its entirety instead of in a piecemeal fashion. If we have to we should follow California and just legislate the plan making its construction law.
 
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Well part of it is certainly the fact that the city insists on building subways the most expensive way possible. There are also no doubt other bureaucratic reasons and also the English speaking world in general can no longer build public transit for a reasonable cost anymore. That's not just me saying it either there was an actual study done that Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the US have some of the highest transit construction costs on earth for some reason. If I had to narrow down the big culprits though, I would say its: choosing the most expensive construction methods (e.g deep bores), to many consultants, to many regulations, lack of institutionalized knowledge, an unwillingness to look at examples from abroad ("we are special snowflakes and things that work somewhere else won't work here", and "every solution needs to be invented here"), and a genuine fear of upsetting a vocal minority.

To me bringing down construction costs will require loosening regulations, ending the consultant grift, building institutional knowledge (both by eliminating consultants and doing more work in house, looking at you Metrolinx), looking at other countries to see how they solved problems (many solutions they use will work here if we try hard enough), using cheaper alignments and construction methods (e.g cut & cover, at-grade, and elevated), and lastly a little iron-fisted rule to eliminate opposition and end the fear of angering a small number of home/business owners. That latter won't happen if politicians view the future only as far as the next election and fear loosing more then seeing the bigger long-term picture. Short-term thinking won't get us anywhere and that's why the bulk of Toronto transit construction occurred during a period when the incumbent party (PC's) had little fear of loosing the next election (until they did). Lastly we need to take a page out of LA's play book and stop building lines in a one-off manner. We need to have a comprehensive 30 year plan that everyone agrees on and has political support at the municipal and provincial levels. This plan isn't just a list of nice to haves but an actual costed out plan that we all agree will be built out in its entirety instead of in a piecemeal fashion. If we have to we should follow California and just legislate the plan making its construction law.
Yes, yes, I've heard it all before. Transit construction is wildly expensive in the Anglosphere.

I'm not suggesting that we can make constructing subways cheaper than LRTs. I'm just trying to figure out this line of thinking that we can bring down the cost of constructing LRTs but not bring down the cost for subways.

If reducing consultants for an LRT project helps to lower the cost of the project's construction, then we should apply that to subway projects as well.
 
Two additional pieces of commentary.

1) Adam

View attachment 707082

2) Sean Marshall

It's easy to think LRT is the best option - if the only other options are 150m long train, deep bored buried subways or buses in mixed traffic.
 
It's easy to think LRT is the best option - if the only other options are 150m long train, deep bored buried subways or buses in mixed traffic.
Yes exactly, there is a false dichotomy here. Besides Toronto-style trams on narrow road medians, there are far more options than mixed traffic buses and deep bore super wide, super long rolling stock subways.
 
If they just tell the public the need to sit down Finch for a couple of weeks just they can excavate the whole line, people will go crazy these days.

They could totally relocate utilizes and dig a shallow subway line Bloor-Danforth where stations are only 10m deep. Instead, they want these 30-40m deep stations.
 
If they just tell the public the need to sit down Finch for a couple of weeks just they can excavate the whole line, people will go crazy these days.

They could totally relocate utilizes and dig a shallow subway line Bloor-Danforth where stations are only 10m deep. Instead, they want these 30-40m deep stations.
Hold up what, since when did Finch warrant a subway?
 
Was this derailment today?

1767754521356.png
 
Was this derailment today?

View attachment 707173
It was yesterday, although it wasn't a derailment.

A train got stuck on an insulator. And when the trailing train tried to push it off, it ran into an issue with the switches not being able to be set properly.

They eventually got things sorted out, although it took a couple of hours.

Dan
 
I really want the LRT to improve long-term, but its hard to feel hopeful. I think part of the problem is the overall design of the line which falls on metrolinx.
What was sold to the local community was fast and reliable transit that would encourage redevelopment/housing projects.
The LRT takes longer than the bus, and wait time are not any better than the bus. So far there has been no new construction on housing and very few proposals.
I also remember some locals asking for tracks to be laid in grass so it would look aesthetically pleasing, but told no since concrete would allow emergency vehicles to use tracks. I've never seen emergency vehicles use the tracks to bypass traffic.
Every promise made by metrolinx has not happen, not even a little.
 
I also remember some locals asking for tracks to be laid in grass so it would look aesthetically pleasing, but told no since concrete would allow emergency vehicles to use tracks. I've never seen emergency vehicles use the tracks to bypass traffic.
If that was their excuse than why did hey allow it on eglinton?! (albeit on a very short segment)
 

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