Rainforest
Senior Member
If the left-turn phase happens before the through phase, then how can the buses not wait for the left-turning cars coming from the opposite direction?
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Finch West Line 6 LRT
- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
If the left-turn phase happens before the through phase, then how can the buses not wait for the left-turning cars coming from the opposite direction?
yurt2022
New Member
Sounds like some bs excuse from the TTC
yurt2022
New Member
Nope.
Some of Toronto's Flexity Outlooks for the streetcar system have retired already.
Thaboss
Active Member
This is not an accurate statement.
The ttc suggested that they'd need agreement from the consortium or else nothing in the operating side could change. We have zero evidence that the statement itself accurately describes the contract and we have zero evidence that all parties would be against any changes. We dont even know if ttc was telling the truth because the line was planned for much faster trains. Surly the consortiums signed a contract stipulating to those estimated speeds?
During the testing faze we saw much faster times. It wasnt until trains were running RSD (full ttc involvement) that ppl began reporting slower speeds. Hmmm... remember too that the line was delayed for over a year, according to some reports, due to ttc interference (as interpreted by the consortium) hmmm. I for one would like to know what was happening there ...
Ultimately there's not enough that we know and zero reason to believe any of the parties involved here, especially the TTC who are driving these cars like a downtown street car, which no one on planet earth, besides the ttc, would ever do.
Which again leads me to believe that the ttc COULD run these trains faster but are unwilling to do so to avoid whatever potential fallout if things don't run according to their "safety standards".
Theres is video in this thread of street cars running in mixed traffic extremely aggressively for toronto standards. This appears good enough for humans across the pond. Does the ttc even consider such operations as feasible?
Remember, the upper echelons of public service are almost political positions. Such ppl are not immune to giving the political answer to avoid total responsibility and to save their jobs.
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T3G
Senior Member
Stop making shit up.
A bunch of the cars are out of service long term due to severe accident damage, but none have been retired, least of all the ones that haven't been damaged.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
RIght. My mistake.
CapitalSeven
Senior Member
Part of the problem here is not the technology, but rather the culture. Transit managers simply don't care how long it takes riders to get where they are going, and politicians will not direct them to do so.
In Ottawa this manifests itself in trains crawling around not very sharp curves for years. And in the mess that is the airport spur, which was built with a pocket track for 90 second transfers then operated from day one with a 7 minute transfer instead, which the city and media seem to have conspired never to mention out loud. Someone posted a cab video recently with a 90 second dwell at Uplands station, where 3 passengers were boarding.
The uproar over Finch is the first time any politician or transit agency has signalled the least awareness that travel time is even a thing, and we need to strike while the iron is hot to ensure this remains an issue.
In Ottawa this manifests itself in trains crawling around not very sharp curves for years. And in the mess that is the airport spur, which was built with a pocket track for 90 second transfers then operated from day one with a 7 minute transfer instead, which the city and media seem to have conspired never to mention out loud. Someone posted a cab video recently with a 90 second dwell at Uplands station, where 3 passengers were boarding.
The uproar over Finch is the first time any politician or transit agency has signalled the least awareness that travel time is even a thing, and we need to strike while the iron is hot to ensure this remains an issue.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
The Ottawa airport train is slower than a bicycle. And it has conflicts with train traffic at the diamond.
turini2
Active Member
You have a source for this?
Bordercollie
Senior Member
I think he's talking about the ones that were flood damaged. Those were sent to get repaired.
T3G
Senior Member
And one of those 2 is back on property.
smallspy
Senior Member
This is unequivocally not true for most low floor LRVs, and especially not with the Citadis cars used in Ottawa, Finch West and Hurontario.
Go look at a Finch West car and tell me how the trucks are not supposed to pivot but still allow the things to turn.
Dan
This is already baked into the scheduling and dispatching software not just of the LRTs but also of the subways and buses.
Dan
Rainforest
Senior Member
Yes.
Apart from obviously annoying the riders, unnecessarily slow movement results in higher operating costs. That part of the situation is not immediately visible, but the basic math says that.
Let's say you have a 10 km long transit line, you want service frequency = every 5 min, and each car needs 5 min at each terminus for recovery. How many cars do you need in service? That depends on the speed of operation.
At 25 kph average: roundtrip duration is (10 + 10) / 25 * 60 = 48 min, plus 2 x 5 min for terminal recovery. That's 58 min total. You need 58 / 5 = 11.6, rounded 12 cars.
At 15 kph average: roundtrip duration is (10 + 10) / 15 * 60 = 80 min, plus 2 x 5 min for terminal recovery. That's 90 min total. You need 90 / 5 = 18 cars. Thus, more to be spent on the drivers salaries, more space needed at the yard, more cars to maintain, etc.
It should be stressed that 18 cars in the second scenario do not actually provide any more service than 12 cars in the first scenario. The frequency is 5 min in both cases, the passenger load is the same of both cases, the number of riders per day is the same in both cases.
One might be tempted to feel that 18 cars on line provide more "service" than 12 cars on line. But in reality, those artificially slowed 18 cars are just doing the job of 12 cars.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
They can turn, they just can't do it very well. Look at all the issues Ottawa is having with the Citadis. Years after opening the Confederation Line, and they still have to slow the trains down when turning. Look at how slow the Citadis moves on Line 6 when entering and exiting Humber College.
Why are both OC transpo and the TTC operating the Citadis at such slow speeds when they hit a turn? Does OC Transpo have the same obsession with safety as the TTC does?
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