News   Dec 10, 2025
 221     0 
News   Dec 10, 2025
 278     0 
News   Dec 10, 2025
 368     1 

Finch West Line 6 LRT

As someone who lived through the "Ottawa style disaster", the idea that this stuff about the speed of Finch is a "worse PR disaster" is complete nonsense.

If you think that the reaction to the Confederation Line involved people being "happy and hopeful", man. You truly don't know.

I meant on opening day. Hence the "disappointment came later" thing. Here they started with the disappointment at hour 1.

With Ottawa the problems built over time, and people got more and more disillusioned with the line to the point they lost all hope, and even though it's "reliable" now the hope is gone

As a person that commutes on OTrain line 1 and 2 a few times a week, I'm well aware of what's happening with it
 
The King St section of the ION is slower, but compared to what I experienced with Line 6, they're still driving the trains in downtown Kitchener faster than the TTC drives Line 6 in comparable areas. I was watching the speedometer in the empty drivers cab when I took Line 6 this weekend and we were taking pretty much every bend in the tracks at like 7-10km/h. The ION takes turns at 15km/h only dropping to 10km/h at the worst 90 degree turns on the system. So even on comparable sections of track the TTC wants Line 6 to be slower than the ION.
When I rode the ION last year it was crawling at the two turns on Hayward and Courtland. Like it was moving so slow I thought we were rolling to a stop.

I hope at some point in the future they can straighten out that stretch of tracks and get rid of those two tight turns.
 
If the schedule were reduced by 10 minutes per direction (20 min round trip), here are what the headways would be with the existing number of vehicles in service at different times of day:
Screenshot 2025-12-09 at 16.26.51.png


18 minutes saved round trip seems more likely since it produces a clockface 10-minute headway in the evenings/weekends. The 2 extra minutes each way could be added to the terminal time to improve reliability. Currently the schedule calls for 3 minutes at each end which is incredibly short for a 46-minute trip.
Screenshot 2025-12-09 at 16.45.13.png
 
Last edited:
When I rode the ION last year it was crawling at the two turns on Hayward and Courtland. Like it was moving so slow I thought we were rolling to a stop.

I hope at some point in the future they can straighten out that stretch of tracks and get rid of those two tight turns.
Yeah I was quite critical of the ION when it first opened because of these slow turns. At the time I didn't understand why they went with that design since, for a little bit more money they could have eliminated the bottleneck. What I came to learn is that the Region of Waterloo was operating on a shoe-string budget when they built ION because unlike Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, and Peel who had their LRTs paid for in full by daddy Provincial and/or Federal government, the Region of Waterloo only got 2/3rds of the funding from upper government and had to fund the rest themselves. With only 500,000-ish residents between the tri-cities (rural townships didn't pay for ION) there wasn't the kind of tax base available to do everything perfectly, so some compromises were required. A lot of the strange turns on ION were put in to reduce land acquisition costs. The Region of Waterloo wanted to use their own rights-of-way as much as possible, which wasn't too difficult as they own most of the rail spur lines which intersect the city (Iron Horse Trail ROW), but they had to use roads in some areas to link the rights-of-way together. Honestly, for a total construction cost of less than $1 billion, for the area served and the speeds provided, the ION is probably the best value-for-money transit project in the country.

With Stage 2 they're going to be more liberal with the construction costs, so there will be fewer of these bottlenecks. Not to mention based on the way ION is designed, if they ever wanted to re-route things to get rid of turns, it would be easy to do so.
 
If there is a use for AI, maybe it is to mediate the minutiae between signal timing, boarding/alighting time and travel speed to produce a minimum of overall trip time.
I agree. One of the biggest issues with the TSP system on the streetcar network is that we have a very simplistic way of estimating travel time that is usually wrong, since it would be logistically impractical to separately calibrate a formula for each direction at each intersection at each time of day. But we have boatloads of data we can use to train a machine learning model to predict travel times at each intersection based on data sources such as the time of day, the traffic signal state, time since previous streetcar and of course the observed travel times of previous streetcars.
 
Yeah I was quite critical of the ION when it first opened because of these slow turns. At the time I didn't understand why they went with that design since, for a little bit more money they could have eliminated the bottleneck. What I came to learn is that the Region of Waterloo was operating on a shoe-string budget when they built ION because unlike Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, and Peel who had their LRTs paid for in full by daddy Provincial and/or Federal government, the Region of Waterloo only got 2/3rds of the funding from upper government and had to fund the rest themselves. With only 500,000-ish residents between the tri-cities (rural townships didn't pay for ION) there wasn't the kind of tax base available to do everything perfectly, so some compromises were required. A lot of the strange turns on ION were put in to reduce land acquisition costs. The Region of Waterloo wanted to use their own rights-of-way as much as possible, which wasn't too difficult as they own most of the rail spur lines which intersect the city (Iron Horse Trail ROW), but they had to use roads in some areas to link the rights-of-way together. Honestly, for a total construction cost of less than $1 billion, for the area served and the speeds provided, the ION is probably the best value-for-money transit project in the country.

With Stage 2 they're going to be more liberal with the construction costs, so there will be fewer of these bottlenecks. Not to mention based on the way ION is designed, if they ever wanted to re-route things to get rid of turns, it would be easy to do so.
For an region and municipality taking their first swing at a rail transit project really ever, the way it turned out is miraculous.

Not trying to derail the thread, but does anyone have a link to a thread discussing Phase 2 of ION? Very curious about the choice to bank so far around Preston.
 
For an region and municipality taking their first swing at a rail transit project really ever, the way it turned out is miraculous.

Not trying to derail the thread, but does anyone have a link to a thread discussing Phase 2 of ION? Very curious about the choice to bank so far around Preston.
If you're wondering why Stage 2 of the ION avoids Preston, NIMBYs caused that to happen. The people of Preston don't want any change and the Region doesn't wait around for this nonsense, so they went with Hespeler Rd instead.

And honestly Hespeler Rd is the better route. Preston is too small with limited development potential. Hespeler Rd is a stroad surrounded by retail plazas just waiting for redevelopment. Leaving Preston alone (to remain in my opinion a bit of a dump) makes them happy so be it.

Cambridge is the odd-one out in the Region, they operate like Toronto, NIMBY hellscape.
 
A council item to ask staff to produce the report council asked for a year ago?

Council wastes so much time demanding reports from staff, it's just a stalling tactic and a waste of staff time. How about instructing staff to implement strong signal priority and report back on the impact.
Supposedly they're not going direct staff to study the issue but implement it instead:
 
They want these LRTs to operate and look and feel as little like a streetcar and as much like a subway as possible. Its all about optics. Thats why they painted them grey (no seriously, to match the subway trains stainless steel look. No, I'm serious this is not an opinion, Metrolinx stated this for real. Like its going to fool anyone)

Optics asside, you are right, its better. But everything in politics is about optics.

Ironically, you know what WOULD make them seem more like a subway? Transit priority and driving them faster than 30kmh 👀
Metros in other places (Paris, Amsterdam, etc.) have doors actuated by buttons.
 
The speed limit along the Finch LRT corridor is between 40-60 kph. This is the speed we should be doing between stops. Anything slower is unacceptable.
I would argue speed limits for LRVs could be, say, 10kph higher than that for regular traffic This may require legislative changes -- but perhaps yet another argument for proper grade separation to escape the tyranny of the HTA. A higher limit for rail transit vehicles makes some sense given that: speed limits are set with the expectation that many drivers will exceed them, at least somewhat (85th percentile etc.), LRVs are on rails with a predictable path, and they are operated by professional drivers.
 
I would argue speed limits for LRVs could be, say, 10kph higher than that for regular traffic This may require legislative changes -- but perhaps yet another argument for proper grade separation to escape the tyranny of the HTA. A higher limit for rail transit vehicles makes some sense given that: speed limits are set with the expectation that many drivers will exceed them, at least somewhat (85th percentile etc.), LRVs are on rails with a predictable path, and they are operated by professional drivers.
Someone please confirm this but isn't the speed limit for the line 6 vehicles 60km/h and 50km/h for the line 5 vehicles themselves.
 

Back
Top