Collingwoodbuildinglover
Senior Member
I think he might be referring to outside of the GTA areas like Huntsville and Owen sound Ford is pouring billions into transit but it is all concentrated in the GTA
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ARG1
Senior Member
First, Huntsville is a weird choice considering that he's literally building the Northlander which will serve Huntsville. Second, Doug also heavily deregulated the coach bus market that has lead to the current status quo of improved inter city busses to many cities and prices that are a lot cheaper than they were pre-covid during the greyhound days. Finally, exactly what kind of transit do you want in cities like Huntsville and Owen Sound? These are small towns where it's relatively easy to get around on foot, and simply isn't economically feasible to run massive frequent bus networks. The car will inherently always be king in these places.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Much like the Bradford Bypass, the 413 is going to solve a lot more traffic issues on local roads than it will on other freeways.
The 413 is going to pull a lot of traffic off local arterials in Brampton, and exactly like you said, make it easier to build safer local streets.
The Dutch model for road design is to put cars on separate facilities (i.e. freeways) as much as possible and make the local roads slow and shared. It works very well - but cars need freeways to operate. the alternative without a 413 is a tonne of mega-stroads through Brampton that will work for nobody.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
As mentioned earlier, if the province rebated each commercial truck that uses the 407 with tolls, it would be cheaper than building the 413. Trucks currently using the 401 would then use the 407, as well.
TRONto
Active Member
You only need a small percentage of vehicles removed from the 401 to greatly speed up traffic. With the increase in population and truck traffic, infrastructure including highways needs to grow.
CMQSD402F9011
New Member
I’m talking about how the TTC lacks a operating subsidy from the Provincial Government while motorists get the most attention of funding
CMQSD402F9011
New Member
Except it’ll only benefit Ford’s rich donors which are the Wealthy Developers like Cortellucci who will get a large earning on their plate
innsertnamehere
Superstar
the province is spending about $4 billion on highways in 2025. Most of which is maintenance capital - repaving, bridge replacements, etc. Just keeping existing assets in good shape. As of today there is exactly 3 highway expansion contracts underway in the entire province - the Highway 3 widening in Leamington, The Highway 400 widening in Vaughan, and the Highway 417 widening in Ottawa. All with a combined contract value of less than a billion dollars.
Do you know how much they are spending on Transit?
$10.7 billion. And most of that, unlike highways, is expansion capital. The province has 7 rapid transit lines under construction as of today (6 on Monday!) plus the GO Expansion program.
So no, motorists do not get "most of the funding". The province outspends on Transit by about a 2.5:1 ratio, and when you look at expansion funding, it's probably closer to a 10:1 ratio. And that's in a province where transit has only an 8.6% modal share and driving has a whopping 83.6% modal share! Per commuter, the province is spending nearly 25x as much money on public transit, with transit riders getting a whopping $27,400 per rider in Capital funding this year ($10.7 billion divided by the 390,140 recorded public transit commuters in the 2021 census) and car driving commuters getting a paltry $1,100 in capital funding per commuter ($4.2 billion divided by 3.79 million auto commuters recorded in the 2021 census)
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Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Even a generous count of 3 subway projects is easily countable. Have I missed the sarcasm
urbancog
Active Member
How many lane kilometres of 400-series highway has the province built since 1990 and how many track-miles of passenger rail? One low-spend year (while waiting for the 413 and Bradford Bypass to start) doesn't redress the poor investment in rail that's occurred under every government.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
considering a lane-kilometre of 400-series highway can cost as little as $5 million.. understandably more. For the same level of investment it is costing to extend the subway 1 kilometre into Scarborough, MTO is building 100 kilometres of freeway expansion to extend Highway 400 towards Sudbury. Even "expensive" highway projects like the 407 East, which built 60 kilometres of new freeway with 4 complex freeway-freeway interchanges and toll infrastructure, cost $4 billion. That buys you like 4 kilometres of subway.
The spending differentials between transit and highways is a more recent phenomenon - but to be clear, it is not a 1-year blip. 2026, the year the Bradford Bypass is going to start major construction, is actually projected to see a reduction in highway spending to $4.1 billion, while transit spending increases to $11.2 billion. Even the 10-year forecast has transit outspending highways on a 2:1 basis ($60 billion to $29 billion).
The rate of highway expansion in Ontario has actually, believe it or not, actually slowed under the Ford government. Since 2018 when he formed government the Ford government has only initiated construction on three highway projects which weren't previously obligated or under construction by the Provincial Liberals (Highway 3, Highway 400 widening, Highway 401 widening in Tilbury).
I will also note that since 2005 - the last 20 years - the province has constructed and opened just 167 kilometres of 400-series designated highways:
1. Highway 401 Windsor - 9.5km
2.407 East - 44.2km
3. 418 - 10.3km
4. 412 - 10.1km
5. 410 extension - 8.3km
6. 400 extension - 64km
Since 2005, the province has constructed and opened 248 km of transit routes comparatively - so the last 20 years has actually seen more transit open than 400-series highways!
| Km | project |
12.2 | ottawa LRT |
8.6 | SSE |
10.5 | FWLRT |
25 | UPX |
34.5 | BARRIE |
12.6 | RICHMOND HILL |
2.7 | lincolnville |
53.6 | kitchener |
16 | KLRT |
72.3 | niagara |
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nfitz
Superstar
I don't know if they'd even have to rebate that much, as 407's income from motor vehicles would increase, as at peak they'd have to jack the tolls significantly to keep the traffic flowing if all the 401 trucks landed on the 407.
It would allow trucking companies to do more work in the rush-hour periods that are death to them.