Highway 401 Transit and Auto Tunnel

[Dan416]

Regardless of Ford's insane plan, I still think they could do something to either build a tunnel or elevate some lanes so that the bottleneck between 427 and Kipling/Islington can be relieved. That wouldn't cost anywhere near as much as tunnelling from Mississauga to Scarborough.

 

[RapidTransit]

403 was once proposed to connect to the 401 at 427/Hwy27. And eventually turn into the proposed Richview/Crosstown expressway along Eglinton.

I would propose that Doug just to see his reaction of a highway going through is neighborhood. It would be funny to see him fight against that.
It would be fiscal conservative, because it would be cheaper than the tunnel. And still be a relief to the 401.

Sometimes you have to play people at their own game. But at the same time, he might actually go through with it. But I highly doubt that

 

[nfitz]

The only place a tunnel may make sense is the bottleneck west of hwy 409 since there is no room to widen the highway.

Most of the distance from the 409 to the 427 is 10 lanes already,, and there's plenty of land in the right-of-way to add 2 to 4 lanes. The issue is the short 8-lane segment between Renforth and just east of the 427. If you look at an airphoto, there's huge amounts of land. The issue is the bridge piers for the 8 or so overpasses.

A complete rebuild of this section is quite possible, without any expropriation; but obviously very expensive. And (like the tunnel) might not really accomplish anything except move the traffic jam elsewhere. Though presumably those structures have some kind of end-of-life. The whole interchange is more something that happened, rather than was planned. Realigning the 427 completely through here, and simplifying the overbuilt ramps to Eglinton could reduce the number of structures that they need.

"We are closing lanes on the 401 so that we can excavate the vertical shafts needed for the upcoming tunnel"

The only vertical shafts would be air vents. I wouldn't be surprised if they could do this without excavation.

The two portals would require some work - but there's a lot of excess land at the 401/427 and 401/Don Mills/DVP for the launch site and recovery.

 

[crs1026]

The only vertical shafts would be air vents. I wouldn't be surprised if they could do this without excavation.

No emergency exits?

The two portals would require some work - but there's a lot of excess land at the 401/427 and 401/Don Mills/DVP for the launch site and recovery.

A single entrance and exit? So, if you have a car fire, the fire truck comes all the way from Scarborough to Etobicoke?

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

No emergency exits?

You should check out the emergency exits under the Channel Tunnel!

A single entrance and exit? So, if you have a car fire, the fire truck comes all the way from Scarborough to Etobicoke?

Yes. Obviously there'll have to be a passageway, and multiple decks for emergencies, etc.

Though if they really wants transit stations (and I doubt it), then I guess they'd need excavations. But I think that is just BS so they can sell the idea, which they'll then value engineer away. Good grief, the interchange station with Yonge would be expensive - Lord Seaton station. Though perhaps there's no need for the tunnel to follow the existing 401.

 

[lenaitch]

You should check out the emergency exits under the Channel Tunnel!

Doesn't the 'Chunnel' have a separate tube for maintenance and refuge?

 

[nfitz]

Doesn't the 'Chunnel' have a separate tube for maintenance and refuge?

Indeed - and as I said, there'd be need for a passageway.

 

[MisterF]

The 401 is already one of the widest highways in the world, if not the widest. It's the poster child of induced demand and the futility of adding more and more lanes. Widening the highest even more is just insanity.

 

[Haljackey]

The 401 is already one of the widest highways in the world, if not the widest. It's the poster child of induced demand and the futility of adding more and more lanes. Widening the highest even more is just insanity.

I'd rather one giant highway vs 3-4 smaller highways cutting your city up into pieces.

Widening makes sense in some bottlenecked areas. Tunneling seems like a stupidly expensive way to do that, but it is a way.

 

[MisterF]

I'd rather one giant highway vs 3-4 smaller highways cutting your city up into pieces.

Widening makes sense in some bottlenecked areas. Tunneling seems like a stupidly expensive way to do that, but it is a way.

There's no need to choose between one giant highway and multiple smaller highways. That's a false choice. We could have chosen neither like some much bigger cities have. Further widening an already ridiculously wide highway is just doubling down on bad policy.

 

[lenaitch]

Indeed - and as I said, there'd be need for a passageway.

The human risk factor is part of the reason this whole thing is a charade. Everything that moves on the Channel Tunnel does so on trains that we can assume are regularly inspected, operated by trained crews and managed by a central control. Everything that runs in Dougies tunnel will range from brand new to a beater and individually operated by thousands of drivers with a wide range of skills and attitude.

Depending on how long this thing is, emergency response might a long time coming and the "passageway' would have to be large enough for service and emergency vehicles.

The Channel Tunnel has had five fires in its history; all involving 'heavy goods' trains (tractor-trailers). Would Doug allow transports? Dangerous goods? If not, how to manage that.

There are so many things wrong with this idea the mind boggles.

 

[drum118]

It took 7 years at a cost of $700 million to built this tunnel that only handles 10,000 vehicles a day.

Now how long is this tunnel to be and how many vehicles it supposed to move??

What will be the effect on drivers traveling this long tunnel??

If 2-2 lane tunnels are moving 10,000 7/24 you will need 10 tunnels to move 50,000 at a cost $1.6 Billion for 9 miles with no exit between

Using MTO claim how many cars should use a single lane at maximum limit very 3 seconds we get this: 20/minute/ 60 minutes = 1200/hr x 24 hrs = 28800 x 2 lanes = 57600 in one direction Need 4 lanes for two way traffic using MTO numbers.

To put portals in the existing highway will requires existing lanes removed from service at both ends with traffic been pinch well before the portals at both ends and will have a major impact on traffic fore every.

looks like about 50-70km for this tunnel and will be the world longet road tunnel. Another road world record for Toronto.

Ryfylke Tunnel, Norway – 8.98 miles (14.46km)​

 

[max]

To put portals in the existing highway will requires existing lanes removed from service at both ends with traffic been pinch well before the portals at both ends and will have a major impact on traffic fore every.

When you have a multi-billion dollar budget to build a fantasy tunnel, I'm sure there's a multi-million dollar expropriation fund to buy up any such pinch points to make room for the portals.

Any time you try to take this proposal seriously, you will come up against a ridiculous trade-off that should torpedo the project but somehow doesn't.

EDIT: extraneous word

 

[narduch]

The point of the tunnel is so Ford can squander more money and give it to Construction companies.

Its not supposed to make sense. Just like how Ontario Place or the Science Centre or the school board take overs also don't make sense

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

So Doug Ford wants to tunnel under the 401? Meanwhile...

Metrolinx struggled to tunnel under Hwy. 401, forcing lane closure and repairs​

See https://globalnews.ca/news/11521835/scarborough-subway-extension-highway-401-closure/

Fresh questions are being raised about the viability of Ontario Premier Doug Ford’s plan to tunnel beneath Highway 401, after new internal documents reveal the extensive difficulties a major provincial transit project has experienced trying to go under the artery.

Since early 2023, a tunnel boring machine has been slowly making its way south from Sheppard Avenue and McCowan Road, digging out a route for the three-stop Scarborough Subway Extension.

During the summer of 2024, the machine reached Highway 401, forging a path under the road and onto the other side.

Internal documents obtained by the Ontario NDP, however, suggest the work was far from smooth.

Redacted reports and presentations from provincial transit agency Metrolinx reveal how problematic the tunnelling was.

A 401 highway tunnel will be much more complicated than any Line 2 tunnel extension.