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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 213 71.5%

  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 14 4.7%

  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 31 10.4%

  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 23 7.7%

  • Other

    Votes: 17 5.7%
  • Total voters
    298
DSC said:
This was passed by Council yesterday. It MAY help the LRT funding.

Motions (City Council)​


From https://secure.toronto.ca/council/agenda-item.do?item=2024.EX19.2
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also:

City Council direct the General Manager, Transportation Services, in collaboration with the Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Transit Commission, to report to City Council by the second quarter of 2025 on recommendations for interim bus lane implementation along Queens Quay East between Bay Street and Parliament Street
 
Jeff Morgan said:
also:

City Council direct the General Manager, Transportation Services, in collaboration with the Chief Executive Officer, Toronto Transit Commission, to report to City Council by the second quarter of 2025 on recommendations for interim bus lane implementation along Queens Quay East between Bay Street and Parliament Street
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This nothing new. If one goes back to the beginning of the Master Transit Planning, TTC only wanted to run buses for QQE and to Villager Island until development was in place as well not heavily investing funds up front. This allows them to do what they wanted to do since day one at a low cost.

One way to do this is to run buses from Fleet Loop and loop around the block at Parliament or a temporarily loop where the approved loop was to be back in 2010.

The other option is beef up the Bay route, removed the loop at George Brown and loop at Parliament. Students/others would have to cross QQ to catch the bus going west for George Brown.

To really go out on the limb, don't loop at Parliament, but loop where the plan LRT loop is to be on Commissioner to the point where every 2nd bus is going to the Commissioner Loop. Thew land is there for the Commissioner Loop now and will be one of the area to see something built on it.
 
drum118 said:
This nothing new. If one goes back to the beginning of the Master Transit Planning, TTC only wanted to run buses for QQE and to Villager Island until development was in place as well not heavily investing funds up front. This allows them to do what they wanted to do since day one at a low cost.

One way to do this is to run buses from Fleet Loop and loop around the block at Parliament or a temporarily loop where the approved loop was to be back in 2010.

The other option is beef up the Bay route, removed the loop at George Brown and loop at Parliament. Students/others would have to cross QQ to catch the bus going west for George Brown.

To really go out on the limb, don't loop at Parliament, but loop where the plan LRT loop is to be on Commissioner to the point where every 2nd bus is going to the Commissioner Loop. Thew land is there for the Commissioner Loop now and will be one of the area to see something built on it.
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All seem viable options but I REALLY think that if there are 'workable' stop-gap answers we will NEVER see proper public transit on QQE. Time to get their acts together!!!
 
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DSC said:
All seem viable options but I REALLY think that if there are 'workable' stop-gap answers we will NEVER see proper public transit on QQE. Tie to get their acts together!!!
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I agree with no true transit on QQ until TTC/City realizes the Union Loop is a money pit and will never handle the ridership if it does happen since they have force people to stay in the car or to get one with this delay. Transit First has been a joke in TTC.

One has to only look at the cost to fix Union Loop from what it was in 2010 to where were are today and that is a huge cost now. It is one reason I have said since the start of the review is to block off the Union tunnel and build a true east-west line first and only when money is found to do Union will the Union loop be put back into service. You can still get that east-west line into service by 2029/30 if 100% drawing are in place this year.

As of December, grading was taking place along the south side of Commissioners for the ROW which will most likely be pave this spring until construction on the ROW starts.

There has been and there are people in TTC who fully opposed any thought of having streetcars or LRT on roads that don't have them today and do anything in their power to stop them from happening. They believe buses is the right chose with subways following them regardless of the ridership. Even BRT's are not on their radar consider it is needed today and that is all it will support for some of those lines.
 
One thing I have fail to point out, the new roads will be gridlock once development starts. If one looks at today traffic, it can be backup on Cherry Street for industrial traffic.

Looking at the traffic Tuesday night, it was backup going southbound starting south of Front St with people trying to get to Polson Pier event or watch the fireworks from there as well dealing with a backup on the Lake Shore going westbound with drivers trying to get across the city, to see the firework or an event.

As development take hold, Commissioner traffic will be come a backup nightmare once the Don Roadway reopen which is supposed to be this year, the New Park this year as well getting to Cherry St.

Once you put bus service in place of the LRT, it will be tie up in that traffic backup that it will be faster to walk from X stop to where a rider wants to go. End of the day, TTC and the city are shooting themselves in the foot delaying this project and creating more traffic congestion not only for the area, but trying to get to/from it.

I don't know if Steve Munro has done a time study on the Pape bus as well this area, but it would be interesting to see what it shows for travel time today let alone a few years ago. It would be a benchmark for future travel time once buses replace the LRT.. Even the Cherry St bus travel time would be a good benchmark.
 
drum118 said:
Commissioner traffic will be come a backup nightmare once the Don Roadway reopen which is supposed to be this year, the New Park this year as well getting to Cherry St.
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Why? It was a ghost town before construction started on the new river. One day perhaps, but I can't see it being soon.
 
nfitz said:
Why? It was a ghost town before construction started on the new river. One day perhaps, but I can't see it being soon.
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With the Don Roadway close, traffic being using other routes to Commissioners St, but traffic can be heavy at various tine on the weekdays for Cherry. Once the New Park opens this year, traffic will increase for visitors to see it. Foot traffic was way higher in 2024 and more so this year. I also did not say which year for gridlock.
 
drum118 said:
With the Don Roadway close, traffic being using other routes to Commissioners St, but traffic can be heavy at various tine on the weekdays for Cherry. Once the New Park opens this year, traffic will increase for visitors to see it. Foot traffic was way higher in 2024 and more so this year. I also did not say which year for gridlock.
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I've used Commissioners Street for decades. And not once have I ever seen heavy traffic on it. Cherry has backed up when there's an incident on the Lakeshore.
 
Northern Light said:
And a report to next week's Executive Ctte on the subject of the WELRT recommends..... another report! LOL


I think they're doing this just to torture @DSCToronto which is very mean....

From the above:

View attachment 626802
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I have given up hope on this line as its report after report with no shovels in the ground.

Its nice to see the design going toward 100% for the section for Parliament to Cherry, but it should be for the whole thing.

The cheap and fastest method for getting the line in service goes back to 2015 or about on what I have been calling for over a decade and that is blocking off the tunnel and loop for an east-west line. When funds found to do the tunnel and loop as well a real update QQ Station, do the work and when it is ready to open, removed the tunnel blockage. The WYE needs to be built on day one.

Dec 18
Future ROW 2035-50 that will be either be asphalted or grass over until work starts on it.
54269829347_6a01c8aa5c_b.jpg

54270956073_55fb341e5c_b.jpg

54270712321_3bd4d66d38_b.jpg
 
I guess City Hall is just trying to find a way to make some of their staff useful.

That's the only reason I can think of for this ongoing stupidity of report, after report, after report being issued.

Either they find funds to build the damn thing, or they should shut up and stay quiet.
 
UT, don't just give me a Thumbs up........(though I appreciate that)...................

You're mad.........at wasted time, and wasted money...........DO something about it.

Email the Mayor, the Budget Chief, the Report Author...etc.

Flag the issue to reporters.

Will every email change things? Nah...........one won't.............but 10 of you taking the time.........will.

So start the count with your own correspondence.
 
Northern Light said:
UT, don't just give me a Thumbs up........(though I appreciate that)...................

You're mad.........at wasted time, and wasted money...........DO something about it.

Email the Mayor, the Budget Chief, the Report Author...etc.

Flag the issue to reporters.

Will every email change things? Nah...........one won't.............but 10 of you taking the time.........will.

So start the count with your own correspondence.
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I gave up on email as I am still wait responses on questions and other things from everyone, with TTC failing to answer simple questions.

The days of us having any power or bending arms are gone as the power to be march to their own beat when they want to march at all.

Even Waterfront Toronto having a hard time trying to get anyone to listen to them or even fund various things as well accepting their request to change things.

Try get BlogTO to do a write up on this mess
 
Also, it's such a great thing the city has earmarked $300 million in the budget (a significant chunk will go towards pissing away money on staff wasting all of our time on various useless repetitive reports) to address increased costs from potential union agreements and contracts.:rolleyes:

It's no wonder people think government staffing levels are bloated, and it doesnt help the perception when you have staff wasting resources (time and money) on stupidity.

 
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