TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[Markster]

The buses do not have any anti-aliasing. The wires and pantograms look as if they were drawn, since they too have no anti-aliasing. In other words, the image looks amateurish. Therefore, I can tell that it is a joke without stating the date on it.

Have you ever been to Portland? Looks like the real thing to me.

 

[Justin10000]

The buses do not have any anti-aliasing. The wires and pantograms look as if they were drawn, since they too have no anti-aliasing. In other words, the image looks amateurish. Therefore, I can tell that it is a joke without stating the date on it.

You're not very fun at parties, are you?

 

[Hank]

You're not very fun at parties, are you?

Heh...just what I was thinking.

 

[EnviroTO]

Have you seen the buses and wiring in Portland?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Could the new light rail vehicles and streetcars be too quiet for the Americans and the non-downtowers?

From this link:

Should We Not Build Light Rail Because it is Too Quiet?

People who are opposed to light rail have put forth a number of reasons why it should not be built in Charlotte. Too expensive, not enough population density, they say. Now Tara Servantius, a columnist for the Charlotte Leader, has come up with a new reason--light rail is too dangerous because it is too quiet.

As proof she offers as an example, the Portland light rail MAX, which killed five people in the past year, four in the last six months of 1999. At least this should lay to rest the fears some people expressed at our past transit meetings when people asked if light rail would be noisier than the Chicago elevated or the New York subway!

Light rail is indeed very quiet and can sneak up on your if you are not paying attention or your back is turned. However, is this a good reason for rejecting the idea of light rail? Should we reject a quiet, efficient, non-polluting form of transit because it has been involved in some accidents? It is true you can probably hear a bus coming better than a light rail train--maybe even smell it coming! However, you can reasonably expect to find a light rail train on its tracks. With buses the possibilities are nearly limitless.

Tara did point out the fact that the Portland system MAX was responsible for a third of the fatalities that occurred on all 21 light rail systems in the entire country last year. Why such a high percentage in Portland? One reason may be the fact that its light rail operates over 15 blocks directly on crowded streets in the heart of downtown Portland. While our proposed system will have a number of "at-grade" crossings, there are no plans at the present time to operate directly on our public streets.

It would appear that Portland needs to do a thorough job of public safety education that includes the need to look before crossing the tracks or getting too near to moving trains. As a matter of fact, that is just what we did for nearly 50 to 75 years when almost every city in America had streetcars. Yes, there were accidents, but most of us survived quite well in an environment that included more pedestrians than we have on our streets today.

 

[Dan416]

Is this an April Fools' post?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Is this an April Fools' post?

[video=youtube;CZSBCts4_Es]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZSBCts4_Es[/video]

The St. Clair right-of-way was built to the newer construction standards, which is better than the right-of-way on Spadina, which was built to older construction standards. The St. Clair streetcars are quieter than the Spadina streetcars. The LRT and streetcar tracks being built nowadays result in quieter conditions. Unfortunately, there are still old parts of the streetcar trackwork that still need to be rebuilt to the newer quieter standards.

When the newer low-floor light rail vehicles come, they will be even quieter. One visible component will be the bogie skirts, in addition to other more hidden components.

The ALRV without the bogie skirt:

The LFLRV with the bogie skirt:

 

[BurlOak]

I was wondering what is the advantage of the new streetcars over an LRT vehicle.

Can we not run LRT vehicles on all the streetcar routes. We could do away with all the loops since the vehicles could just reverse direction at the last stop with just a cross-over - possibly even sell the land that the loop is on. We could add additional cross-overs that would allow the LRT vehicles to turn back at multiple locations in case of accidents or breakdowns.

Are the loops needed because there is such high passenger volume at these locations that we don't want all those people waiting in the middle of the streets? I probably do not understand the streetcar operation well enough - could someone help me out?

 

[W. K. Lis]

I was wondering what is the advantage of the new streetcars over an LRT vehicle.

Can we not run LRT vehicles on all the streetcar routes. We could do away with all the loops since the vehicles could just reverse direction at the last stop with just a cross-over - possibly even sell the land that the loop is on. We could add additional cross-overs that would allow the LRT vehicles to turn back at multiple locations in case of accidents or breakdowns.

Are the loops needed because there is such high passenger volume at these locations that we don't want all those people waiting in the middle of the streets? I probably do not understand the streetcar operation well enough - could someone help me out?

The streetcars (uni-directional) can handle the tighter (11m vs 25m) curves and steeper (8% vs 5%) inclines than the bi-directional light rail vehicles. In addition, the streetcars would be able to handle single-point switches while the light rail vehicles would use double-point switches.

Single-point switch:

Double-point switch:

The streetcars would be more expensive than the light rail vehicles.

 

[car4041]

I was wondering what is the advantage of the new streetcars over an LRT vehicle.

Can we not run LRT vehicles on all the streetcar routes. We could do away with all the loops since the vehicles could just reverse direction at the last stop with just a cross-over - possibly even sell the land that the loop is on. We could add additional cross-overs that would allow the LRT vehicles to turn back at multiple locations in case of accidents or breakdowns.

Are the loops needed because there is such high passenger volume at these locations that we don't want all those people waiting in the middle of the streets? I probably do not understand the streetcar operation well enough - could someone help me out?

It might be clearer to talk about "single-ended" versus "double-ended" vehicles. If the replacement legacy streetcars were to be double-ended like the Transit City LRVs, the cost would be even higher, as there would be an extra cab plus all its equipment, as well as four extra doors. All these extra components would increase maintenance costs as well. The extra doors would also reduce the space available for seating, ticket machines, bike storage, etc (but could allow for a bit more standing room at peak times).

That said, there would be operational advantages of being able to use crossovers instead of loops (at least in certain places -- you can't exactly put a crossover in the middle of a street like Queen). But would this flexibility be worth the extra cost of the double-ended equipment? And would the TTC actually put in enough crossovers to make the added cost and complexity of the double-ended cars worthwhile? Loops would remain the optimal form of terminus in many locations, as they can hold a larger number of cars.

 

[rbt]

Can we not run LRT vehicles on all the streetcar routes. We could do away with all the loops since the vehicles could just reverse direction at the last stop with just a cross-over - possibly even sell the land that the loop is on.

The sharpest turns are actually right-hand turns such as at Queen and McCaul or Church to King. Off-the-shelf LRT are not designed for such turns.

Off-the-shelf LRT would also not be able to deal with the Queens Quay portal, Bathurst street to St. Clair, etc.

The modifications necessary to meet the above also make it capable of dealing with the loops we have. Selling the land would not have paid for the track changes necessary, so they made the right decision for now. In 30 years the answer will probably be different.

 

[lead82]

Since the new streetcars sre going to be much longer than the current rolling stock, does anyone know if the TTC will re-evaluate the stop spacing or alter the stop island platforms to expand them on routes that start using the new LRVs? I would imagine that this would need to be done but have not heard of anything that the TTC is doing to prepare.

 

[Dan416]

Since the new streetcars sre going to be much longer than the current rolling stock, does anyone know if the TTC will re-evaluate the stop spacing or alter the stop island platforms to expand them on routes that start using the new LRVs? I would imagine that this would need to be done but have not heard of anything that the TTC is doing to prepare.

You're funny. I think you put far too much faith in the TTC.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You're funny. I think you put far too much faith in the TTC.

C'mon. Give the TTC some credit. They aren't complete idiots (I hope).

 

[W. K. Lis]

The new LFLRV will be longer the current ALRV's we have. With the new LFLRV coming, wouldn’t it be better to reconfigure the Bathurst Station by switching places for the streetcar tracks with the bus bays. The 7 Bathurst bus really does not need the vast expanse they currently use on the east side of the platform, the west side of the platform could be fine for the buses. The 90 Vaughan bus no longer terminates at Bathurst Station as it once did, but at St. Clair West Station.

When was the last time the trackwork at the station was worked on? When it does come time to rebuild the tracks, would it not make sense for the 511 Bathurst streetcars to use the east side of the platform, especially with the longer LFLRV coming. They could include parking tracks, or shift the passenger platform if they need to.

Unless, of course, they go the underground routine, like the Spadina Station. (Unlikely.)