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SRT to be shut down for refurbishment (2015)

Suggesting that we put in an even more ridiculous transfer than exists today, when there is an opportunity to fix it... is well ridiculous.

As a point of reference, the Sheppard-Yonge rebuild/addition cost almost $200 million and that was more than 10 years ago.
 
Paleo said:
As a point of reference, the Sheppard-Yonge rebuild/addition cost almost $200 million and that was more than 10 years ago.
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Really? The entire project was only $1 billion. Closer to 15 years ago - construction started back in 1997. With the amount of inflation in the construction price indexes since then, $200 million back then would be closer to $400 million now.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Maybe they should just employ some common sense and put in the heating mechanisms, improve underpasses to allow for MK11 trains and save themselves a cool billion and 40 months of shut down?
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Thing is, the Eglinton subway is already planned to use low floor vehicles, and going back to redraw the architecture for high floor vehicles would just add several more years of nothing getting done. With that said, I think Webster is overestimating any delays to the project. Most of Kennedy is above ground, and retrofitting the SRT stations for low floor trains shouldn't be too difficult. And of course, changing the rail should take no more than a few months - a year tops.
 
Why not forget the SRT or a replacement LRT on this alignment? Its a transit line going through a non-residential area. Instead how about a GO tail track to STC interlined with the Stouffville line. Single track with a level crossing across Midland and then a new bridge structure across Brimley to STC. Transfer at Kennedy if you want or take the train right to Union. No Kennedy rebuild required and certainly could be finished faster then 4 years. This would change the daily commute of many Scarberians. And it would remain a Metrolynx line item.
 
Some of you are questioning the SRT being out of service so long. Given the TTC's track record, do you really think they'll finish faster than they think?
 
nfitz said:
There's very little in the rebuild of Kennedy that requires a closure of the SRT. It's all at Mezzanine level. The existing SRT platform can operate through much of it.

Webster didn't seem to be very familiar with the project. I very much doubt shut-down will be 4-years long. He's already been corrected twice on other comments he made.

And why are we starting yet another thread on this project?
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If one walks the existing route and looks at everything as well understand construction building, 4 years is right for TTC, but could be built in 2.5-3 years without TTC being involved.

One of the time killer is rebuilding the underpass as well changing the slope and station location at Ellesmere.

All the stations roofs have to be removed and raising the rail bed.

You got to tear up the existing tracks as the center to center is too narrow for the LRT cars.

The existing yards can be used for the time being until a new carhouse is built, as the existing roof of the current one is too low to service the cars. To raise the roof may cost the same amount as a new one.

There are problems with the mezzanine level that will require to be partly or full close.

As for Webster comments, he is relying on staff info to him and he is getting the 2 hands problem like everyone these days. One hand said one thing while the other saying something different due to power struggles within TTC power empires. A few are going out of their way to make Webster look bad, as they know he toast come 2013 when his contract is up. Then I am sure Webster is looking to that final day now.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Given the TTC's track record, do you really think they'll finish faster than they think?
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Don't see why not. They've done very well on the big projects historically. Sheppard was on-budget, and slightly early.

It's a function of who the contractors are, mostly. And the bidding on the big jobs, precludes the low-quality, run-away, fly-by-night contractors you get on the smaller jobs. It's not like we are talking Kipling or Castle Frank here.
 
nfitz said:
Don't see why not. They've done very well on the big projects historically. Sheppard was on-budget, and slightly early.

It's a function of who the contractors are, mostly. And the bidding on the big jobs, precludes the low-quality, run-away, fly-by-night contractors you get on the smaller jobs. It's not like we are talking Kipling or Castle Frank here.
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Fair enough. I think at this point keeping an eye on the Spadina extension would be a better litmus test than looking at the 15 year old Sheppard subway project though.

If there are systematic delays on the TTC's end with that project, then I think we have the right to be worried. The Spadina extension should be just about finished by the time the SRT is shut down. If it's not close to finished by then, then we have a problem. If it's open by the time the SRT is closed, then we should be good to go.
 
Four years to do this conversion is just the way things are done in Ontario. I hesitate to open up the comparison can of worms, but Beijing did build their airport line - same technology as the SRT but about 3 times as long - in less than two years. This project could easily be done in two years, but of course it would cost more that way.
 
ssiguy2 said:
$ 300 million for 30 new articulated MK11 trains, redo the tunnel and put in the heating mechanism and you have yourself and extra $800 million to play with. I still think the whole idea of transferring it to LRT is ridiculous.
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Except you just made those numbers up. The TTC found that the ICTS and LRT options would both cost roughly the same. (Source: Steve Munro)

ssiguy2 said:
In other words they are scrapping a 6km rapid transit line to build a lower capacity LRT line. LRT due to it's thinner trains and slower acceleration than SkyTrain means it has the lowest capacity of standard subway, SkyTrain, or monorail.
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This is nonsense. Capacity will be significantly increased, as longer trains will be run. And the new LRT vehicles will not be "thinner" than the current trains; they will be wider (2.65m vs. the current 2.49m).

The travel time will be exactly the same whether it's ICTS or LRT. (Source: open house presentation, page 9)

So in fact, we're getting a rapid transit line with the same speed, greater capacity, increased winter reliability, a much better subway transfer, and interlining along Eglinton.
 
car4041 said:
Except you just made those numbers up. The TTC found that the ICTS and LRT options would both cost roughly the same. (Source: Steve Munro)



This is nonsense. Capacity will be significantly increased, as longer trains will be run. And the new LRT vehicles will not be "thinner" than the current trains; they will be wider (2.65m vs. the current 2.49m).

The travel time will be exactly the same whether it's ICTS or LRT. (Source: open house presentation, page 9)

So in fact, we're getting a rapid transit line with the same speed, greater capacity, increased winter reliability, a much better subway transfer, and interlining along Eglinton.
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I love to have lrt take over the existing scarborough rt but if they have to rip station roofs, raise platforms, rip maintenance yard, insert overhead wiring, do major work on rail tunnel...as drum has stated above

Then there is no way the cost of lrt and mk2 can be the same....

I was pro-lrt for srt but if it costs $1 billion and the entire line is automated and grade seperated then we shud just keep icts. Four years for a srt shutdown is ridiculous. And with metrolinx running it, we can finally see a truly automated system instead of the current auto srt manned by watching operators....lol

If 4 years is correct, ICTS is the way to go for the entire line.
 
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