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Exisisting Urban Rail Lines for Subway and LRT Use.

CanadianNational

CanadianNational

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I don't know if there's already a thread for this.

There's some attention being paid in the press to the idea of using existing urban rail lines in Toronto for subway and LRT use - whether that means using the existing rails, building alongside them, or a combination. With stops added, it would be a more european-style transit setup than a subway-centric New York one.

Here's a link:

Toronto's Dream Transit Already Exists
http://www.thegridto.com/city/politics/torontos-dream-transit-network-already-exists/

Page 8 in this PDF document:
http://tonightnewspaper.com/pdf/3-041.pdf

From the Star:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/999737--a-rapid-transit-fix-for-toronto

Here's a map I did of existing rail lines in Toronto:
theraillinesoftoronto.jpg


With only small additions, there's your DRL, Beltline, Junction and waterfront access. Heee!


And one with the existing subway lines added:
theraillinesoftoronto_wsub.jpg



With existing lines and Eglinton from Black Creek (ish) to Kennedy.
theraillinesoftoronto_wsubandeglinton.jpg



Now that is a transporation system!
 
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Aren't the black lines just GO transit lines now? So the point here is to expand GO service....ML should come up with that plan! ;)
 
Neat! Is anyone able to map that against population densities in Toronto? If someone can put the rail links in a file somewhere, I can try to bring it into my GIS.
 
one more line going east to west though downtown, then... :rolleyes: (sorry, don't want to turn this into fantasy)
 
I agree we should expand go service. But there should be a kind of parallel, local service that runs in the same corridors as GO but with more stations.
 
Add more stations within the city's boundaries. All travels between stations within the city charge the same fare as TTC (i.e. $3.25). Allow free transfers between GO and TTC if both the origin and destination are in the city. Run local trains (stopping at all stops inside Toronto) alongside express trains (stopping at selected stops). When will Metrolinx do that?
Scenerio:
1. take the Georgetown train at Weston, get off at new GO station at Queen West, transfer to Queen streetcar, get off at Spadina, $3.25.
2. from Oriole, to Exhibition, $3.25.
All trips originates and ends within the city.
 
GraphicMatt said:
Every time I go by the West Don Lands development I think about how perfectly located it is for frequent service on the rail corridor. Seems like a no brainer.
Click to expand...
Perhaps. Big question is where will DRL intercept the line. Probably wouldn't want 2 stations between Danforth and Union. If the intercept point is Gerrard, might as well build there. It's not a terribly long walk from Cherry to Union.
 
Why would we need to build parallel LRTs and subways in the rail corridors? Electrified GO service would work perfectly fine. Most of these lines would have at least 2 tracks, possibly 3 or 4. 2 tracks for local routes, and either 1 or 2 tracks for express service. You can triple the number of stations inside of Toronto and still have a very fast service.

The way I envision the GO service working is that each line would run 3 different routes: A milk run route that served every station (this would operate at all times), a 905-based route that would make all stops in the 905, and then only make maybe 1 stop inside of the 416 in addition to Union, and a 416 route that would only operate inside the 416 (and short-turn before reaching the 905). The last 2 would likely only operate in rush hour, because that's when capacity would be pushed. 905ers would get their express trains, and the 416 would quadruple the amount of rapid transit inside the city's borders.

nfitz said:
Perhaps. Big question is where will DRL intercept the line. Probably wouldn't want 2 stations between Danforth and Union. If the intercept point is Gerrard, might as well build there. It's not a terribly long walk from Cherry to Union.
Click to expand...

I think that drastically increased GO service, coupled with where the new stations end up, will drastically alter where we perceive the DRL should go.

EDIT: Here's a map I posted a while ago, but I'll repost it because I think it illustrates how an electrified GO network can be integrated into our current and planned transit system: http://www2.andrew.thejohnsonclan.ca/GTATransit_NTS.jpg
 
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gweed123 said:
Why would we need to build parallel LRTs and subways in the rail corridors? Electrified GO service would work perfectly fine. Most of these lines would have at least 2 tracks, possibly 3 or 4. 2 tracks for local routes, and either 1 or 2 tracks for express service. You can triple the number of stations inside of Toronto and still have a very fast service.

The way I envision the GO service working is that each line would run 3 different routes: A milk run route that served every station (this would operate at all times), a 905-based route that would make all stops in the 905, and then only make maybe 1 stop inside of the 416 in addition to Union, and a 416 route that would only operate inside the 416 (and short-turn before reaching the 905). The last 2 would likely only operate in rush hour, because that's when capacity would be pushed. 905ers would get their express trains, and the 416 would quadruple the amount of rapid transit inside the city's borders.



I think that drastically increased GO service, coupled with where the new stations end up, will drastically alter where we perceive the DRL should go.
Click to expand...

Pretty good idea
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Pretty good idea
Click to expand...

Thank you. I think by and large it's the simplest solution to address what many people would view as common concerns. Coming in from the 905 during rush hour, there would be very few people who would actually want to get off at a smaller stop inside of Toronto. Making the train express as soon as it crossed into the City of Toronto would make the service more attractive to 905ers. And having trains stay exclusively in Toronto would help dispel the notion that GO is mainly for 905ers, seeing as how they would be the ones getting all the seats in the AM rush hour. Keeping a route inside the 416 would be very positive for Torontontians, because they would have "their train".

Assuming that there are at least 3 electrified tracks on each line, this should be pretty simple to pull off. 4 tracks would be even better.
 
I could see the Air-Rail link eventually being expanded on the east and west ends to have frequent all day EMU service, however there is no way that CP would fork over the rights to their mainline. They already have their main yard on that piece of track.

The only real way I could see to even have frequent service on CP's North Toronto Sub would be to build a bypass track along the 407 ROW, buy out and expand CN York Sub and then offer to buy operate the CTC to keep the trains running frequently. You would either do that or nationalize the entire country's rail system.
 
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