GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[mpd618]

There seems to be a feeling amongst some here that all those suburbanites that park at GO stations are doing so for economic reasons alone. "why take local transit when I can park for free".

Hardly. The feeling is that the economic incentives are a factor in the decision-making. Some may feel it is worth paying for, and some may not.

Making parking cost might just make them think things like "dropped the kid off, already in my car, gonna cost me to park at GO anyway, ah well I'll keep on driving."

And let them. The amount of money that is spent on parking (not to mention the opportunity cost of station-adjacent land) could go a long way to attracting other riders who can avoid schlepping a car with them to the train. It would increase ridership through reduced fares, or through expanded service. And where trains are at capacity anyway, it's unlikely that charging for parking is going to change that much.

At the same time, those who find the train a worthy competitor to clogged highways - and worth paying for - would still be able to bring their car with them, as long as they're willing to pay the costs of doing so.

 

[nfitz]

So you only play fare for one direction?

Ah very good point! As I never park at GO stations, it never crossed my that one would take 2 trips for one park.

Still the point is, that the cross-the-board cut, shouldn't really drop fares below the cost of a local transit trip. Though an opportunity to put in fare-integration would be nice ...

 

[reaperexpress]

Don't forget to add monthly TTC costs if your work is not within walking distance of Union.

Or instead of adding $1332/year for 12 MDP Metropasses, you could add $92/year for a Bixi membership.

Which brings up a too-often forgotten way of getting to GO stations: bicycles. In my opinion they offer the best of both worlds between local transit and Park and Ride. At rush hour, biking is as fast or faster than driving, and is completely free if you use your own bike. But what GO customers might appreciate the most is the ability park right next to the station and bypass the lineups exiting the parking lot.

I know that for me personally, biking is by far the best way to get to the closest GO station (York U). Driving is impossible because there is no parking, biking takes about 5-10 minutes, and transit takes between 15-45min, because I have to depend on two infrequent and extremely unreliable buses.

As has been mentioned earlier, many GO stations are in relatively inconvenient locations, but as long as GO builds a bike path from a convenient access point to the station's bike parking, it's up to the municipalities to build the rest of the infrastructure, at no cost to GO. I think the municipalities would gladly build bike infrastructure to the station because it is such a straightforward bicycle trip generator.

 

[doady]

Ah very good point! As I never park at GO stations, it never crossed my that one would take 2 trips for one park.

Still the point is, that the cross-the-board cut, shouldn't really drop fares below the cost of a local transit trip.

Yes, especially in Toronto, where fare below or at the same level as the TTC would put GO in conflict with the City of Toronto's ban on suburban transit.

As I said earlier in this thread, the implementation of parking fees should be revenue neutral, which means neither an increase in cost overall or a decrease. So with $4 parkings fees, maybe the new fare per direction at your station should be something like $2.50 (which would still be in conflict with the City of Toronto's ban on suburban transit, but let's ignore that for now, for the sake of discussion). It small increase for drivers, but still a substantial decrease for non-drivers.

Alternatively, the parking fees could be based distance from union to get around the City of Toronto's ban on suburban transit, ranging from $2 to 5, for example. So within the City of Toronto, with $2 parking, the fare could be something like $3.25, which would hopefully not be in conflict with the City of Toronto's ban on suburban transit.

 

[ShonTron]

I believe GO is exempt from the ban on competing transit (originally brought into force against jitney bus operators competing against the private, franchised, Toronto Railways Company. Taxis and railways (covers GO trains) are specifically named as exceptions.

GO used to provide train-bus service to stations within Toronto; specifically Oriole and Old Cummer and today there are several legal within Toronto trips one can take on GO. This makes sense as some of the GO bus routes have their legacy in the TTC-owned Grey Coach Lines (especially Toronto-Brampton-Guelph, the Yonge and Lake Simcoe services, and the Hamilton QEW service. The TTC 59 Yonge North became the GO-operated Yonge C bus.

 

[drum118]

GO is expempt from any ban for "ALL" competing transit systems in Ontario, including TTC. You can find riders waiting at a southbound stops on Yonge St in Toronto for a GO bus, going to Union as well a few other routes.

 

[jeff316]

Or instead of adding $1332/year for 12 MDP Metropasses, you could add $92/year for a Bixi membership.

Which brings up a too-often forgotten way of getting to GO stations: bicycles. In my opinion they offer the best of both worlds between local transit and Park and Ride. At rush hour, biking is as fast or faster than driving, and is completely free if you use your own bike. But what GO customers might appreciate the most is the ability park right next to the station and bypass the lineups exiting the parking lot.

I know that for me personally, biking is by far the best way to get to the closest GO station (York U). Driving is impossible because there is no parking, biking takes about 5-10 minutes, and transit takes between 15-45min, because I have to depend on two infrequent and extremely unreliable buses.

As has been mentioned earlier, many GO stations are in relatively inconvenient locations, but as long as GO builds a bike path from a convenient access point to the station's bike parking, it's up to the municipalities to build the rest of the infrastructure, at no cost to GO. I think the municipalities would gladly build bike infrastructure to the station because it is such a straightforward bicycle trip generator.

It'd definitely be ideal but not biking is not an attractive proposition to the majority of commuters, particularly the out of towners.

 

[drum118]

I asked some question from Go on a number of things and have received some info back on it.

Q - Adding special train for special events as noted in the report, does this apply only to the Lakeshore line like in the past or will this now be added to other lines? If it is for other lines, is there any any information which lines will get what service for what event at this time or will it be close to the events themselves?

GO Transit operates service increases for special events around the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area according to various factors, such as demand, marketing, and timing. Typically, specific information corresponding to extra trips on GO routes and corridors is available closer to when these special events occur. We ask that customers check our website frequently, or sign-up for E-News to receive updates via email or text message alerts. Examples of GO Transit's special event service increases include additional train trips on the Lakeshore corridor for the following events: the Santa Claus Parade, the Honda Indy race, the Canadian National Exhibition, and the caribana festival.

Q - Do you know what kind of ridership existed for the Mississauga Hurontario 407 Station as for pickup and drop off today? I see next to no cars there and see no one being pickup/drop off by Brampton or Mississauga Transit these days. I know in September, Mississauga Transit will terminate its 19’s and 202’s service there, which will force riders who want to go to Shoppers World Terminal to make an extra transfer on either Brampton Transit Zum or MT 102, which will have problems dealing with the ridership in the first place. BT 2 which currently services the GO 407 terminal, bypass Shoppers World terminal and carries very few riders north/south in the first place.

Currently, there are 96 parking spaces available at the Hurontario/407 Park and Ride lot. Last March, there was an average of 45 vehicles parked at this location. Starting this fall, Hurontario/407 Park and Ride lot will be serviced by Mississauga Transit, Brampton Transit and GO Buses - allowing for increased connectivity between the three transit operators.

 

[TOareaFan]

I asked some question from Go on a number of things and have received some info back on it.

Is it just me or did they fail to answer either of your questions?

 

[drum118]

Is it just me or did they fail to answer either of your questions?

They did in aroundabout way.

I asked if they knew what was plan for special events for other lines at this time and stated no, and will not know until closer to the events. Indy will only see Lakeshore this year. They answer the question I asked for and was expecting this type of reply.

As for the 407, yes they did not supply that info other than an average of 45 cars a day. I can read it as only 45 people used this station and will cause 2,000+ riders a day being inconvinced to service them with the Sept changes if they use transit. Again, GO thinking about cars only, not local transit to feed them or what impact it will have on local transit riders. Another Aldershot mess for riders.

 

[nfitz]

Sometimes I wonder if the way to shake TTC up and better integrate GO and local transit is simply to use the BC model and make local transit all part of Metrolinx. Then magically they'd all be looking at ways to integrate, rather than protect their own turf.

 

[drum118]

Sometimes I wonder if the way to shake TTC up and better integrate GO and local transit is simply to use the BC model and make local transit all part of Metrolinx. Then magically they'd all be looking at ways to integrate, rather than protect their own turf.

That has been the plan since 2006 for Metrolinx, but don't how to deal with ATU113 to do it.

The Ministry of MTO stated at June 30 meeting the time has come to talk about fare integration for the Whole of the GTHA including TTC. That will only happen if the government is re-elected.

 

[GTS]

My family went out of the city on the long weekend and I saw some construction at the GO Pickering Station. It looks as though they are constructing a pedestrian bridge (which I read about years ago and is finally happenning) betweeen the Pickering GO Station on the south side of the 401 and Pickering Town Centre on the north side of the 401.

The reason that I bring this up on your thread is that Pickering Town Centre has a fairly large bus loops that quite a few of the local buses use (Durham Transit) and now if this bridge connects GO Transit with Durham Transit in Pickering it would really help facillitate integration of these two transit systems. Presently there is only one bus route that goes near the Pickering GO Station so the majority of the commuter traffic comes from automobiles, but that might lessen hopefully if these two systems integrate a bit better- which this bridge might do (hopefully the other side of the bridge is near the Pickering Town Centre's local bus route loop.

 

[gweed123]

Sometimes I wonder if the way to shake TTC up and better integrate GO and local transit is simply to use the BC model and make local transit all part of Metrolinx. Then magically they'd all be looking at ways to integrate, rather than protect their own turf.

Definitely. I wonder if this would need to come from the top down, or if a bunch of mayors got together and said "take it", if the Province would listen. My guess is it would be a top down thing, but that the mayors would need to be willing partners in order to make it happen.

As I suggested a while ago, as a trial run Metrolinx should take over a smaller transit agency like Burlington or Oakville transit. Not something with huge ridership numbers and a lot of routes, but a relatively smaller system that can be really well integrated with GO, and see how it goes. If it's shown to be successful in terms of increase in ridership/efficiency and a smaller impact on the municipal budget, I would expect that a lot of GTHA municipalities would be lining up to have their transit services integrated.

 

[nfitz]

If City of Toronto handed over TTC, I expect the other cities would probably be keen to unburden themselves.

But how would they ever convince City of Toronto to give up control of TTC?