Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)

[Mihairokov]

I understand the inherent pessimism around building HSR as we've been down the study-and-research-path before, and everyone has been scarred enough by the Mercer Report video on this subject, but I think a failure of communication so far is around the fact that this is far more along the path and advanced than any of the previous attempts at HSR.

 

[sixrings]

I understand the inherent pessimism around building HSR as we've been down the study-and-research-path before, and everyone has been scarred enough by the Mercer Report video on this subject, but I think a failure of communication so far is around the fact that this is far more along the path and advanced than any of the previous attempts at HSR.

You think good communication is in the way out when your party doesn’t have the best shot at getting in? This isn’t stellar timing.

 

[MisterF]

HSR has taken an interesting road to where we are today. For a long time Via Rail tried to get the government to build HSR to no avail. So they came up with a cheaper, more pragmatic plan that focused more on frequency and reliability than speed. And then over the next decade that plan evolved into what Via was lobbying for in the first place.

Anyway, I figured out what the name of this project reminded me of.

A game from a Montreal studio if I recall correctly.

 

[6ixGod]

I thought people here were telling me conservatives will support this project. Not with that mindset they won’t.

That’s because Conservatives (a large swath of them) are under the impression that governments should “operate” nations like a company and that if it doesn’t turn a profit, its a waste of money. They don’t view governments as an instrument to invest in their people.

The place of government, aside from protecting us from threats, is to help keep the marketplace competitive and responsible.

Not everything that is profitable is of social value and not everything of social value is profitable.

 

[guavadelic]

If it ever gets built, will the Ontario government fund an extension to Windsor?

Completion of the TOR-OTT-MTL section of the HSR will likely take until the 2040s, so if Ontario waits until then to start building a Toronto-Windsor line we are doomed. The Toronto-London section of the 401 is close to capacity now.

 

[guavadelic]

If only there was an express rail connection from Pearson to Union.

For Montreal, it's pretty straight-forward to extend the REM LRT one more stop from Trudeau to the existing intermodal station on Dorval Circle.

One of the stated objectives of the project is to replace the high number of flights between cities in the Corridor. A lot of those flights serve as feeder or connecting flights and replacing those will need a direct connection to the TOR/MTL airports like Frankfurt or Paris.

 

[micheal_can]

A few of your points I have differing thoughts

2. HSR links communities

Not true, in the sense that HSR only links the biggest cities and offers only 7 stops. This is fine as a "virtual airport" network, does a great job of moving large numbers of people terminal to terminal as a "backbone". but it does very poor job of serving communities along the way. And, the very small number of stops creates a huge first mile/last mile challenge. Consider the disjointed transportation network that connects Ontario communities to Trudeau and Pearson Airports....HSR does nothing to fix that (although co-locating HSR with regional rail and urban transit does improve on connectivity, also despite adding some recent new airport transit lines, airport connectivity is generally very weak and might be improvale at very low cost eg buses).
There is a second parallel need for regional and local transportation building.... does HSR inhale all the available capital, or will there be a second parallel expense to be budgeted and planned? Canada can only afford so much.

It my not connect my community to your community, but it will connect 3 of our biggest cities to each other with a more robust method. With AC as one of the partners, flying through Canada, you may see that part of your journey on rails. This will open up more space at those 3 airports.

3. Our current air network is plagued by unreliability and is not upwards scalable

Completely true and the prognosis is not appealing. The impact of cancellations, missed connections, and weather disruptions will only multiply as more people travel by air and more flights are required.

What would happen if we saw half of all flights to the airports of the 3 cities? We could get more flights from other places within Canada, or we could see more international flights. Both of those area good thing overall.

12. HSR will reduce ghg

Sort of. The biggest savings is getting people out of cars and airplanes onto a smoky diesel train. Making that diesel train carbon-neutral is the gravy, not the steak. Also, the test is not how much carbon HSR saves, it's how it performs relative to other options within the available investment envelope for carbon reduction. My personal opinion is that improved local transit, replacing regional and local auto use, would remove much more carbon emissions. So those options take priority over HSR if the ccarbon reduction envelope won't achieve both.

You are assuming they are using the same train technology as the rest of the passenger service. What if this line is all electric from the start? If you look around the world, most,if not all HSR is electric. Why would we do anything different?

I understand the inherent pessimism around building HSR as we've been down the study-and-research-path before, and everyone has been scarred enough by the Mercer Report video on this subject, but I think a failure of communication so far is around the fact that this is far more along the path and advanced than any of the previous attempts at HSR.

We are in a political climate that no matter how it is framed, a decent part of the population is going to hate it. Let them. The rest of us can see how monumental this is.

Completion of the TOR-OTT-MTL section of the HSR will likely take until the 2040s, so if Ontario waits until then to start building a Toronto-Windsor line we are doomed. The Toronto-London section of the 401 is close to capacity now.

My hope is one of the current provincial party leaders comes out with an announcement of that.If no one does by the election,my next hope is that it i announced as part of a thrown speech.

 

[northyorker1]

Those idiots couldn't even find an image of an SNCF high speed train, instead they provided a DB one:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1892245521890185428

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

A game from a Montreal studio if I recall correctly.

Toronto-based dev, actually.

AoD

 

[guavadelic]

Not sure if mentioned yet, but Mark Carney provided his position on this project:

High-speed rail is an example of the public-private investment that Canada needs to build the future.
It is an economical engine that will shorten travel time and make it easier.
More connections for more growth. By connecting Canada's economic hubs, we will create thousands of well-paying jobs and strengthen our local economies.
It will be up to the next government to manage the project, with partners, to maximize the benefits of all Canadians.
Now is the time to build the future.

Source: Noovo

https://twitter.com/x/status/1892268890131964403

 

[Kyle Campbell]

Suburban stations make absolutely no sense. If someone is already driving, they're just gonna keep driving in most circumstances. If you include parking, boarding the train, time to take transit at destination and any buffer time, there won't be much of a time difference. This isn't like GO where people will drive to the train to avoid the daily commute. The benefit of HSR would be connecting the downtowns, which is what will make the trains more competitive than flying. If you need to drive to a train station, you can drive to your local rapid transit station and connect to HSR.

I think it's too early at this time to know how many stations there will actually be. We know the 7 cities it will pass through, but the total number of stations is to be determined. I'd also guess like many European high speed rail-lines, the trains will travel on regular shared traffic at normal train speeds within the main cities, and would probably stop at existing station locations already on the way like Fallowfield.

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

Waiting for PP's, "STOP THE TRAIN", how HSR is too woke and how building it will make life unaffordable for all Canadians...

 

[Kyle Campbell]

If they also expanded the Alto plan to basically include Alberta's proposed Calgary->Edmonton HSR I think PP would get on board, as the starting point for a Western Canada network. I don't see the east and west HSRs ever being joined though

 

[northyorker1]

Waiting for PP's, "STOP THE TRAIN", how HSR is too woke and how building it will make life unaffordable for all Canadians...

Perhaps there are many other pressing issues? Or people seriously believe HSR is at the top of the list.

 

[guavadelic]

Waiting for PP's, "STOP THE TRAIN", how HSR is too woke and how building it will make life unaffordable for all Canadians...

"AXE THE TRAX!"