Toronto Ontario Place | ?m | ?s | Infrastructure ON

UtakataNoAnnex said:
I mean, sorta not correct....because they're not planning on nuking with original OSC site this time around and leaving it as "legacy" site, to my understanding. And for what's that's worth here.
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That's not exactly the commitment in writing either.

The commitment is to turn over the building that they claim needs 400M+ in repairs to the cash-challenged City.

They have not promised it won't be demolished, just that it won't be demolished by them.
 
picard102 said:
Will there be more posts discussing the crassness of women and no substantive comment about the water park?
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If you have an issue with that then you should /report it as opposed to engaging with it. And that's all I am going to say about that. Thnkx!
 
Ok..... things gleaned from this Star Article about the 'Technical Briefing/Business case for the OSC move'

1) The cost of the move to Ontario Place omits the cost of restoring the pods.

2) The total cost estimate for restoring/improving the existing OSC (and operating it in its current site) is a whopping 2.3B. I have yet to see how they arrived at this eye popping estimate, but I will express my cynicism as to its accuracy.

3) Clearly the business case is predicated in part on falling attendance at the OSC.

- Not clear is whether the under-fundinging of the OSC at its current site is taken into proper account in that,.

- Also not clear is accounting for the multi-year disruption of the Don Mills/Eglinton intersection as part of the Crosstown construction.

- Further, its not clear whether the opening of the Crosstown and the Ontario Line were factored into potential future attendance.

Source:

www.thestar.com

Doug Ford’s controversial plan to move Ontario Science Centre to Ontario Place would save millions: agency

A study released by Infrastructure Ontario puts the cost of renovating the aging Ontario Science Centre at $2.3 billion, compared to $1.7 billion to construct a new one as part of a revamped Ontario Place.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
 
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Northern Light said:
Ok..... things gleaned from this Star Article about the 'Technical Briefing/Business case for the OSC move'

1) The cost of the move to Ontario Place omits the cost of restoring the pods.

2) The total cost estimate for restoring/improving the existing OSC (and operating it its current site) is a whopping 2.3B. I have yet to see how they arrived at this eye popping estimate, but I will express my cynicism as to its accuracy.

3) Clearly the business case is predicated in part on falling attendance at the OSC.

- Not clear is whether the under-fundinging of the OSC at its current site is taken into proper account in that,.

- Also not clear is accounting for the multi-year disruption of the Don Mills/Eglinton intersection as part of the Crosstown construction.

- Further, its not clear whether the opening of the Crosstown and the Ontario Line were factored into potential future attendance.

Source:

www.thestar.com

Doug Ford’s controversial plan to move Ontario Science Centre to Ontario Place would save millions: agency

A study released by Infrastructure Ontario puts the cost of renovating the aging Ontario Science Centre at $2.3 billion, compared to $1.7 billion to construct a new one as part of a revamped Ontario Place.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
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Also seeing on Reddit the claim that 2009 was a high water mark for attendance due to the Bodies exhibit. So it had nowhere to go but down.
 
Northern Light said:
Lets acknowledge that there is a ton of density proposed in this area, so there will be lots of program demand. The south end of Flemingdon is a considerable distance from the Don Mills Recreation Centre site. (roughly 2km to the Don Mills/Eglinton intersection).

That said, I don't think you would see OSC repurposed as a 'Community Recreation Centre' and if you did, the existing Flemingdon site would likely close.

There are multiple public use options though.

The Flemingdon Library is quite small and no new branch is contemplated in the area; a re-lo here could triple the branch size with lots of room leftover.

There's only one ice pad at the nearby arena, I'm not sure you could refit a rink into the OSC, but its an option, in theory.

There's lots of choices, if the desire is to save the current building.

To be clear, that choice has not been made, instead, the province has simply said, they will give the site and building to the City to do with as they please.
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Regarding your point about the ice pad, there will be two ice pads at the new arena at the Aspen Ridge Community Centre site. and two more icepads at eglinton and sloane. Many of the flemo residents can't afford to buy skates tbh. But just wanted to add to your point.

My second question is if the OSC building remains, what happens with the parking lot? Something should be built there? No? Maybe housing?
 
toronto647 said:
Regarding your point about the ice pad, there will be two ice pads at the new arena at the Aspen Ridge Community Centre site. and two more icepads at eglinton and sloane. Many of the flemo residents can't afford to buy skates tbh. But just wanted to add to your point.
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Fair point. Though, Leaside is a hockey hot bed without enough ice time in its local rink, so is Don Mills; and the latter will lose their rink to development.

toronto647 said:
My second question is if the OSC building remains, what happens with the parking lot? Something should be built there? No? Maybe housing?
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Not knowable at this point. Parking that does not currently impede the view of the building, can probably be developed; I know I mapped the options for that out some time ago here.

But it really does depend on the future use of the current OSC buiding, and what of it, if any is indeed retained.

The current OSC building, while not to my taste, is beloved by many here; if its retained, you're going to need to retain a view of it from the front.

Depending on the nature of any use, it may be necessary to retain some parking.

Of course the building at the base of the valley is not architecturally significant, its a box; were it removed, the parking perhaps could go down there; though, you'd then have a significant climb back to the at-grade building. Lots of ifs/unknowns at this point.
 
Northern Light said:
Fair point. Though, Leaside is a hockey hot bed without enough ice time in its local rink, so is Don Mills; and the latter will lose their rink to development.



Not knowable at this point. Parking that does not currently impede the view of the building, can probably be developed; I know I mapped the options for that out some time ago here.

But it really does depend on the future use of the current OSC buiding, and what of it, if any is indeed retained.

The current OSC building, while not to my taste, is beloved by many here; if its retained, you're going to need to retain a view of it from the front.

Depending on the nature of any use, it may be necessary to retain some parking.

Of course the building at the base of the valley is not architecturally significant, its a box; were it removed, the parking perhaps could go down there; though, you'd then have a significant climb back to the at-grade building. Lots of ifs/unknowns at this point.
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Sorry I don't understand your second point regarding parking being developed? There is already so much parking there, why would more be needed?
 
toronto647 said:
Sorry I don't understand your second point regarding parking being developed? There is already so much parking there, why would more be needed?
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I didn't advocate for more.

You asked about developing what was there.

Keeping in mind the north parking lots are already set to be redeveloped, so that parking will be gone.

The issue then is whether any of what remains will need to be retained for any future building function; and if not, if you are preserving a building/facade because you want people to see it, that may be limit what and where things are built around it, so that a view can be retained.
 
toronto647 said:
Sorry I don't understand your second point regarding parking being developed? There is already so much parking there, why would more be needed?
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In Toronto, there are plans for developing (replacing) parking lots with higher density, mixed use buildings. Any parking will be for contractors and deliveries to the buildings (IE. communications, repairs, painting, furniture delivery, etc.).
 
Maybe I'm in the minority, but costs (and questionable business case methods) aside I think Ontario Place is a way better and obvious location for OSC. The existing building is an architectural gem but it's dilapidated and pretty unaccessible to much of the city. OSC at Ontario Place would be a great use of a landmark building IMO and much closer to rapid transit once go expansion and Ontario line are complete.

I get that most people's complaints are with the lack of transparency in the process and railroading of the initiative, which I fully get. But in the abstract the idea has a ton of merit... I wonder what people's opinion of it would be if a politician other than Doug Ford suggested it.
 
desperateAmbassador said:
Maybe I'm in the minority, but costs (and questionable business case methods) aside I think Ontario Place is a way better and obvious location for OSC. The existing building is an architectural gem but it's dilapidated and pretty unaccessible to much of the city. OSC at Ontario Place would be a great use of a landmark building IMO and much closer to rapid transit once go expansion and Ontario line are complete.

I get that most people's complaints are with the lack of transparency in the process and railroading of the initiative, which I fully get. But in the abstract the idea has a ton of merit... I wonder what people's opinion of it would be if a politician other than Doug Ford suggested it.
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I don't think there's anything wrong w/your take, but I will offer that:

1) The proposed version of the OSC at Ontario place would be roughly 1/2 the size of the existing facility.

2) The province still has not resolved how to close the transit gap from the Exhibition Station to Ontario Place. While not a huge walk, its not small, especially outdoors in adverse weather.

3) The OSC as its stands has ok'ish, surface transit access with 2 fairy frequent surface routes, but it will soon be at the intersection of the Eglinton Crosstown and the Ontario Line which will be pretty good transit access.

4) Without the OSC, the current building's future is in doubt, repairing/restoring it would likely be fairly expensive.
 
Northern Light said:
I didn't advocate for more.

You asked about developing what was there.

Keeping in mind the north parking lots are already set to be redeveloped, so that parking will be gone.

The issue then is whether any of what remains will need to be retained for any future building function; and if not, if you are preserving a building/facade because you want people to see it, that may be limit what and where things are built around it, so that a view can be retained.
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Being in the area for years, I have never seen the north parking lots being used. But I get your point.

We + Developers will get a clearer idea next week of the status of OL construction in this area and if it is sooner than expected I wouldn't be suprised if some developer swoops in. Lets see how this plays out.

With no OSC as in institution this whole site will be a challenge to maintain / survive.
 
- Even though they consider a 50 year timeframe, seems like they refuse to consider that the Ontario Line will be complete LMAO Assuming that construction until 2031 will harm visitors
- Seems like they assume 500 million inflation adjusted cost is needed for an renovation of both the buildings and exhibits over the next 20 years
- Estimates are about a 3 year full closure of the current OSC to clear out asbestos
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