Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[fanoftoronto]

I think this qualifies as "technically true". From what we know, the TSP isn't constant, but rather only activates whenever a train is behind schedule - similar to Viva. Regardless, the LRVs do still technically "have signal priority".

I have replied back to this email asking this same question. If the signal priority is only for special cases or if it's gonna be on all the time. I made a point to emphasize that the LRT is gonna have 100s of people and should take priority over the 10 or so cars with 12 people total inside them.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

I have replied back to this email asking this same question. If the signal priority is only for special cases or if it's gonna be on all the time. I made a point to emphasize that the LRT is gonna have 100s of people and should take priority over the 10 or so cars with 12 people total inside them.

Agree with you but as we’ve established before, the decision to limit signal priority was a City of Toronto one, not a Metrolinx one.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

I have replied back to this email asking this same question. If the signal priority is only for special cases or if it's gonna be on all the time. I made a point to emphasize that the LRT is gonna have 100s of people and should take priority over the 10 or so cars with 12 people total inside them.

"Special cases" should be emergency vehicles, like ambulances or fire equipment. In that case, ALL the signals should be "red", but allow the emergency vehicles through.

If they had bi-directional cycling lanes, emergency vehicles could use them. However, it seems that they went with the accountants' decision, to go with single-direction cycling lanes instead, because it was cheaper.

 

[futurebound]

It really shouldn't be that difficult to implement TSP so that trains don't get stuck waiting for red lights - if a train is actively waiting at an intersection, re-order the signal phases so that the straight-through phase goes first, and the left turning phase goes afterwards. Why does the city insist on prioritizing the 4 or 5 left turning cars instead of an entire train?

 

[valvenis]

It really shouldn't be that difficult to implement TSP so that trains don't get stuck waiting for red lights - if a train is actively waiting at an intersection, re-order the signal phases so that the straight-through phase goes first, and the left turning phase goes afterwards. Why does the city insist on prioritizing the 4 or 5 left turning cars instead of an entire train?

We have a new mayor. Someone should ask her.

 

[CapitalSeven]

It really shouldn't be that difficult to implement TSP so that trains don't get stuck waiting for red lights - if a train is actively waiting at an intersection, re-order the signal phases so that the straight-through phase goes first, and the left turning phase goes afterwards. Why does the city insist on prioritizing the 4 or 5 left turning cars instead of an entire train?

The traffic mavens will probably say that this is a huge safety hazard although many cities have phases that vary according to traffic conditions.

 

[SashaLemon]

This might be a dumb question but are the Line 5 stations (not stops) designed in such a way that would allow for not-super-expensive platform screen door (or platform edge door) installation? Given that the grade-separated portion of the line has ATC it would only make sense.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

What is the duration of traffic signals? If a cycle lasts a couple of minutes, there would be plenty of time to give priority to the light rail vehicles.

How often should the Eglinton LRT run? TTC, Metrolinx disagree​

From link, dated April 26, 2022.

When the Eglinton Crosstown LRT opens, how often will its trains run?

Although the midtown transit line is set to begin service in a matter of months, that question is yet to be settled. At issue is whether they should run every 5 minutes or every 3 minutes and 10 seconds at peak times.

According to a new report, the TTC, which is the city agency on the hook for the millions of dollars it will cost to operate the LRT, has been preparing to run it at a lower service level, but Metrolinx, the provincial organization that owns the line, has suggested more frequent service. The two sides are now in negotiations over the issue as part of a wider operating and funding agreement for the LRT.

Those discussions won’t just decide how long Crosstown riders are waiting on the platform — they’re an early test of the city and province’s ability to co-operate on the LRT, a massive $5.4-billion project that has been delivered under a complex public-private partnership (P3) model that splits responsibility for the line between the TTC, Metrolinx and a private company.

The arrangement has never been used on a TTC-operated line, and how well it works on the Crosstown will be closely watched, particularly in light of the Ottawa LRT fiasco. That project, which opened in 2019, was also a P3, and has suffered so many breakdowns it’s now the subject of a public inquiry.

Eric Miller, director of the University of Toronto Transportation Research Institute, said it’s not clear yet whether the Crosstown will run into problems. But he said aspects of the LRT agreement are “exceedingly awkward” and at least have the potential to lead to disputes.

He noted that Metrolinx and the TTC haven’t always had a good working relationship. They initially disagreed on the LRT design and have sparred over the Presto fare card system.

“The two organizations have always had a different vision of how this line was going to operate,” Miller said.

Both the TTC and Metrolinx suggested talks were going well so far.

“The ongoing discussions with our partners at Metrolinx will result in agreements that make safe and efficient operation of (the Crosstown) a shared priority,” said TTC spokesperson Stuart Green.

Metrolinx spokesperson Anne Marie Aikins said the agency is working with all parties and “is completely focused on achieving the benefits of (the LRT).”

The Crosstown was supposed to open in September 2021 but still has no firm opening date. Construction is scheduled to be finished later this year, although it may not start serving paying customers until 2023.

Under the P3 agreement, Metrolinx will retain ownership of the LRT, while the private company that was contracted to build it, Crosslinx Transit Solutions (CTS), will be responsible for maintenance. The TTC and the city will be responsible for operations, collecting fare revenue and paying for maintenance CTS performs.

According to a TTC staff report that went to the agency’s board on April 14, the TTC has been preparing to open the LRT at what the P3 agreement calls Service Level 1, which would see trains run as often as every 5 minutes at the busiest times.

But the TTC is now in discussion with Metrolinx about starting at Level 6, under which trains would run as often as every 3 minutes and 10 seconds. Metrolinx proposed the higher service levels, which would be a major change — the LRT wasn’t expected to reach Level 6 for another 15 years. Transit demand is way down since COVID-19, and Metrolinx didn’t explain why it’s considering more service.
The TTC has estimated that if the LRT opened at Service Level 1 and gradually ramped up, it would cost $62.6 million to operate in 2023. If it opened at higher service levels, the TTC’s operating and maintenance costs would increase. The agency is already facing a financial crisis caused by the pandemic, but says it hasn’t ruled out more frequent service.

According to the report, any changes to service levels have to be agreed to by Metrolinx and the TTC, with Metrolinx giving final authorization.

Although the two agencies may yet reach an agreement on service, TTC board members have raised concerns about another aspect of the P3 contract. While the TTC is responsible for paying CTS for maintenance, the company’s contract is with Metrolinx, not the TTC. That means the TTC will have to rely on Metrolinx to oversee maintenance on a line the TTC operates.

TTC commissioner Julie Osborne called that the “biggest red flag” of the arrangement. “We have no direct relationship with the maintainer,” she told the board. “For me that’s a source of anxiety.”

Aikins said Metrolinx will ensure the LRT is properly maintained. “We will continue to work with all parties to ensure customer expectations are met, as we deliver a safe, effective LRT service,” she said.

Even at every 3 minutes and 10 seconds, it is longer than most traffic signals cycles currently. Priority should be given to the light rail trains. Emergency vehicles should have a higher priority.

 

[EnviroTO]

Knowing that no standard in door spacing has been established for LRT vehicles in the Toronto area I would think platform doors would be expensive (variable-type doors) or would lock in future vehicle specs when the specs till now have been determined by what comes in the off-the-shelf product.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

This might be a dumb question but are the Line 5 stations (not stops) designed in such a way that would allow for not-super-expensive platform screen door (or platform edge door) installation? Given that the grade-separated portion of the line has ATC it would only make sense.

they said in a post a few years ago they have a system in place that will alert control and the train operators if someone crosses onto the tracks without a train being there. Think of it in the same way how you have a device over a parking spot in some parking lots now that tell if a car is occupying the spot, instead of that it would alert the necessary staff that there is an intrusion on the tracks.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

I'm expecting that the doors will have a delay on them to open and close. With more delays before they open or after they close.

While other cities actually have the passengers pressing the door buttons (inside and outside) to open them individually, in Toronto we tend to have them all open and close at the same time.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Although the midtown transit line is set to begin service in a matter of months

I call Newfoundland steak on that supposition. My guess is at the earliest we’ll see service begin in spring 2024. Followed by a O-Train like shutdown soon after opening due to some oversight in operations, design or execution.

I call Spring 2024 because the lawsuits between Metrolinx and their contractors need to be settled, which can take months. And then construction work needs to be resumed and completed, followed by post-winter testing and trials.

 

[fanoftoronto]

I have replied back to this email asking this same question. If the signal priority is only for special cases or if it's gonna be on all the time. I made a point to emphasize that the LRT is gonna have 100s of people and should take priority over the 10 or so cars with 12 people total inside them.

Closing loop on this email with Metrolinx:

Confirmed yet again, that signal priority is only when LRV's are behind schedule.

My idea is - Metrolinx should create the schedule to be extremely aggressive and mimic grade separation levels of service. This would mean that the LRV's are always behind schedule, meaning that the signal priority is also always active!

Should I put this as my recommendation to Ivan?

 

[duffo]

Closing loop on this email with Metrolinx:

View attachment 498439

Confirmed yet again, that signal priority is only when LRV's are behind schedule.

My idea is - Metrolinx should create the schedule to be extremely aggressive and mimic grade separation levels of service. This would mean that the LRV's are always behind schedule, meaning that the signal priority is also always active!

Should I put this as my recommendation to Ivan?

The schedules and service plans were decided years ago, and are contractually binding. The consortium gets penalized if service is behind schedule. They can't just change them so that it is "always behind schedule"..

 

[trtcttc]

It really shouldn't be that difficult to implement TSP so that trains don't get stuck waiting for red lights - if a train is actively waiting at an intersection, re-order the signal phases so that the straight-through phase goes first, and the left turning phase goes afterwards. Why does the city insist on prioritizing the 4 or 5 left turning cars instead of an entire train?

This is Toronto… I still remember often seeing a supervisor standing at a street corner literally marking down when each streetcar passed by. That’s some very expensive timekeeping which somehow couldn’t be done at transit control