Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[nfitz]

1 month or 3 months mean nothing if they dont enforce the deadlines. What they ought to do is clamp down on deadlines and make sure that they meet it at all costs even if they have OT and weekend shifts

A lot of this is up to the subcontractors - and TTC doesn't really have a lot of leverage over Metrolinx.

 

[coopEng]

It is strange that they "completed" the new fare gate installation at Main St. Stn and yet they do not have Presto activated on them. Figured I'd see what the collector would say when I told him I only had Presto - they had me tap on a waiting 506 streetcar and then enter the subway.

 

[nfitz]

It is strange that they "completed" the new fare gate installation at Main St. Stn and yet they do not have Presto activated on them. Figured I'd see what the collector would say when I told him I only had Presto - they had me tap on a waiting 506 streetcar and then enter the subway.

It's the first installation of these fare gates. Who knows what kind of back end testing they have planned to do, or issues they might have encountered.

They certainly look good though, and are taking Metropass, so no lost capability.

Looks like there has been some minor changes on the TTC Presto fare gates implementation schedule page. Previously each station had the approximate point of the month (e.g. early May, mid June etc.). Now most of them merely state Spring 2016. Runnymede originally had mid June and now it states Summer 2016. I wonder if there has been some minor slippage in the schedule.

More likely they don't want to open themselves up to the incessant complaining, when they are a couple of days late on something.

 

[soundmuseum]

I was on the 26 Dupont bus, and there were Presto readers installed at the front and rear doors.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I was on the 26 Dupont bus, and there were Presto readers installed at the front and rear doors.

View attachment 69980

Interesting i thought it was said they would only have them at the front of the buses

 

[Steve X]

Interesting i thought it was said they would only have them at the front of the buses

People would still have to tap on at subway stations to validate their transfer (if they need one). Since people can board from all doors at subway stations, it's necessary to have them at all doors.

 

[Napoleon]

People would still have to tap on at subway stations to validate their transfer (if they need one). Since people can board from all doors at subway stations, it's necessary to have them at all doors.

Are they going to want people to tap within the "fare paid" zone of the station? That's going to be a bit confusing without a lot of communication.

Aside from that, I think it's great they're installing them at all doors. I would imagine it doesn't cost that much more to put additional readers in after the first one. It could really speed boarding on the articulated buses at busy stops.

 

[Andy T]

Looks like there has been some minor changes on the TTC Presto fare gates implementation schedule page. Previously each station had the approximate point of the month (e.g. early May, mid June etc.). Now most of them merely state Spring 2016. Runnymede originally had mid June and now it states Summer 2016. I wonder if there has been some minor slippage in the schedule.

Looks like new fare gates across the TTC by the end of this year is down the drain. Now they are saying mid-2017.

 

[nfitz]

Are they going to want people to tap within the "fare paid" zone of the station? That's going to be a bit confusing without a lot of communication.

Yes, the board approved this, starting in 2017 or so.

Though having a second reader does also give some redundancy if the front reader fails, as the operator can direct people to tap on the rear one, rather than going out-of-service.

Looks like new fare gates across the TTC by the end of this year is down the drain. Now they are saying mid-2017.

I don't think they ever indicated that they were going to have them all in by end of 2016. The commitment was to make all the stations accept Presto by end of 2016.

I'd always assumed they wouldn't be replacing the turnstiles in the existing 26 stations that already have Presto until 2017.

 

[Steve X]

Are they going to want people to tap within the "fare paid" zone of the station? That's going to be a bit confusing without a lot of communication.

Aside from that, I think it's great they're installing them at all doors. I would imagine it doesn't cost that much more to put additional readers in after the first one. It could really speed boarding on the articulated buses at busy stops.

People will remember when they realized they get charged for a transfer. It would only affect a small percentage of riders who takes 2 buses after the subway. Most riders don't and it doesn't matter. TTC wants people to tap so they know how people are using the system and how many transfers between which routes are made. They can also figure out how long people would have to wait for a transfer which can improve customer experience.

Yes, the board approved this, starting in 2017 or so.

Though having a second reader does also give some redundancy if the front reader fails, as the operator can direct people to tap on the rear one, rather than going out-of-service.

I don't think they ever indicated that they were going to have them all in by end of 2016. The commitment was to make all the stations accept Presto by end of 2016.

I'd always assumed they wouldn't be replacing the turnstiles in the existing 26 stations that already have Presto until 2017.

They don't charge people if the farebox breaks down instead of going out of service. They rather have the bus there than having a missing run. If they can't find another bus, everyone rides for free. Right now they only loose 40% of the income as 60% will have a metropass.

 

[gweed123]

Aside from that, I think it's great they're installing them at all doors. I would imagine it doesn't cost that much more to put additional readers in after the first one. It could really speed boarding on the articulated buses at busy stops.

In Ottawa, the articulated buses have 3 readers per bus, one per door (to facilitate POP). Normal length buses only have 1 at the front though, so it's interesting to see the TTC doing 2.

 

[nfitz]

People will remember when they realized they get charged for a transfer.

It would be the other way round, the way Presto have currently implemented TTC transfers.

If they took subway A and then bus B on the outbound trip. If they didn't tap onto bus B, then when they returned on bus B, and subway A in less than 2 hours, they would would get charged a $0 transfer when they tap on bus B to return.

What's odd, is that if there trip the other way round, bus A and then subway B; they'll get free entry into the subway for the return trip, under the current and future system. Unless they change how Presto has implemented.

I hope they adopt a simple 2-hour transfer to avoid all this.

They don't charge people if the farebox breaks down instead of going out of service. They rather have the bus there than having a missing run. If they can't find another bus, everyone rides for free. Right now they only loose 40% of the income as 60% will have a metropass.

And with two devices, they'll lose that revenue less frequently.

Though the Presto devices seem more prone to failure. I think I've maybe in 10 years seen 1 farebox not working. I've seen 2-3 Presto readers on streetcars not working in the last month.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

So eventually you will have to tap onto a bus or streetcar when you are in a station as well?

 

[Steve X]

It would be the other way round, the way Presto have currently implemented TTC transfers.

If they took subway A and then bus B on the outbound trip. If they didn't tap onto bus B, then when they returned on bus B, and subway A in less than 2 hours, they would would get charged a $0 transfer when they tap on bus B to return.

What's odd, is that if there trip the other way round, bus A and then subway B; they'll get free entry into the subway for the return trip, under the current and future system. Unless they change how Presto has implemented.

I hope they adopt a simple 2-hour transfer to avoid all this.

And with two devices, they'll lose that revenue less frequently.

Though the Presto devices seem more prone to failure. I think I've maybe in 10 years seen 1 farebox not working. I've seen 2-3 Presto readers on streetcars not working in the last month.

I'm pretty sure they are location and direction sensitive. At least they should do that. People will have to tap at the subway station or the transfer is not valid. Otherwise, people can stop over, shop and continue their trip home without paying another fare.
I would really like to know what happens if you tapped on the 506, get off at Yonge. Walk to Dundas and tap to get in the subway. Would it be accepted? This is an illegal transfer and the system should outright deny a transfer.

Drivers can't monitor the back door. If people get sent to the back, they might not tap. It's better than nothing as honest people will pay their fare.

 

[Steve X]

So eventually you will have to tap onto a bus or streetcar when you are in a station as well?

YES and when you leave the vehicle to board the subway. Otherwise you won't have a transfer to get on the next bus or streetcar.

In Ottawa, the articulated buses have 3 readers per bus, one per door (to facilitate POP). Normal length buses only have 1 at the front though, so it's interesting to see the TTC doing 2.

OCTranspo doesn't have rear door boarding for 40 ft buses anywhere on the system. There is no need to have a presto reader in the back. In fact 99% of the transit systems in Canada does not allow rear door entry. Fare paid zone (that is not POP) is unique to the TTC which allows rear door boarding at stations to speed up loading time. Ottawa wants to copy TTC's fare paid zone for their new LRT stations but they have a time based transfer system. There is no need to tap, tap and tap so they don't need one at the rear doors.