M.R.Victor
Active Member
I used this exact argument when I moved out of my parent's house. Check-mate bitches.
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What's with all the anxiety in today's youth?
- Thread starter Admiral Beez
- Start date
wild goose chase
Active Member
Here's a map I found of the percentage of adults aged 25-35 who live with parents for Europe with mention of the US. Of course the economic situation and affordability of living on your own as an adult who's fresh out of school probably varies quite a lot among these places.
http://brilliantmaps.com/europe-live-parents/
I wonder what it'd be like for Canada?
For Canada, 42.3% of 20-29 year olds live with their parents, and 59.3% for those aged 20 to 24, but I don't see stats for 30 or above.
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-312-x/98-312-x2011003_3-eng.cfm
King of Kensington
Senior Member
Funny how that lines up pretty well with the stereotypes in North America! "When you're 18, you're on your own" is something I associate much more with families of WASP, Irish, Northwest European origin more than I do with say, Italian or Jewish families.
prosperegal
Senior Member
And the Italian, Jewish (and Chinese, etc...) families sometimes consider the "when you're 18 you're gone" form of parenting as uncaring.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
Yes, that certainly seems to be my experience.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I suspect that parental pressure combined with family breakdown is a source of youth anxiety. With my own daughter
Well, you have to factor in for the PIIGS where there are few jobs for young adults.
Tewder
Senior Member
Yes, there is likely a strong cultural element at play here. In the map above the higher percentage countries are the ones the lower percentage countries often perceive as lazy, entitled or dependant on hand-outs etc. http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/05/29/chapter-4-views-of-eu-countries-and-leaders/
wild goose chase
Active Member
Maybe Europeans have these stereotypes about those countries themselves among them, however lazy, entitled or wanting hand-outs isn't a common stereotype about immigrants to North America from these countries.
In fact, one common argument for why some communities have a trend where people live so close to and rely on networked extended families is precisely that in countries (this is true of many places, whether Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America etc.) where you can't trust the government to provide or those where the government is corrupt, the family connections become the safety net that they can depend on instead (eg. a situation where the reasoning is that relatives whether parents or children, or more extended kin like uncles, aunts, cousins etc. will "bail you out" if you fall on hard times when the outside society won't).
wild goose chase
Active Member
Is there more parental pressure than previous generations though?
I suppose there's the pressure to go to university that was talked about a lot in this thread, and the fact that degrees are a dime a dozen now so it's harder to get a job for young graduates, but I'm not sure to what extent the pressure is parental as opposed to societal/economic changes that just happened to lead to those pressures.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
More pressure to go to university, yes.
Note too that although it's not as easy for university grads than a generation ago, the premium of having a degree is higher because non-graduates have fared even worse in relative terms. So the pressure is not entirely "irrational."
Note too that although it's not as easy for university grads than a generation ago, the premium of having a degree is higher because non-graduates have fared even worse in relative terms. So the pressure is not entirely "irrational."
Filip
Senior Member
I always found the WASP approach to 'you're 18, get out of the house' to be grossly uncaring, and probably why many of my friends from said group still struggle to get their lives together. They are hobbled by debt, balancing housing/living costs with low paying entry-level jobs... Vicious circle IMO.
My story is simpler. I come from an Eastern European family where the rule is to stay at home until you're 100% capable of going out on your own. This has nothing to do with being lazy or entitled, just managing the various pressures of living in the big city, getting an education, etc... My parents told me my only goal is to study and do a good job in school - don't worry about the rest.
They did help immensely.. Education paid by RESPs they opened when they came to Canada, (including my residence costs while in university in Ottawa), when back in TO I stayed at home, did odd jobs to keep myself busy (but enjoyed having fun in my late teens/early 20s). Once graduated, moved back to TO (parents' house), got my first job and spent the next few years collecting money so I can buy something when I'm ready. Those 4 years in my parents' basement were a blessing in disguise.
There is nothing lazy or entitled about my story though... Everyone's story is based on their own personal ambitions and goals. I worked hard in university to get decent grades, and most importantly worked my ass off to get ahead once my career started. I'm now in my mid 20s, in senior management at a software company and quite comfortably off... My mother now says 'I've done a good job as a parent'. This is the exact same approach I'll have with my kids one day.
Case Closed - I love being European.
My story is simpler. I come from an Eastern European family where the rule is to stay at home until you're 100% capable of going out on your own. This has nothing to do with being lazy or entitled, just managing the various pressures of living in the big city, getting an education, etc... My parents told me my only goal is to study and do a good job in school - don't worry about the rest.
They did help immensely.. Education paid by RESPs they opened when they came to Canada, (including my residence costs while in university in Ottawa), when back in TO I stayed at home, did odd jobs to keep myself busy (but enjoyed having fun in my late teens/early 20s). Once graduated, moved back to TO (parents' house), got my first job and spent the next few years collecting money so I can buy something when I'm ready. Those 4 years in my parents' basement were a blessing in disguise.
There is nothing lazy or entitled about my story though... Everyone's story is based on their own personal ambitions and goals. I worked hard in university to get decent grades, and most importantly worked my ass off to get ahead once my career started. I'm now in my mid 20s, in senior management at a software company and quite comfortably off... My mother now says 'I've done a good job as a parent'. This is the exact same approach I'll have with my kids one day.
Case Closed - I love being European.
Tewder
Senior Member
A common stereotype of immigrants in North America is that they are industrious, seeking a better life (i.e. an American way of life specifically), wanting to assimilate and contribute to society etc. It is a fundamental part of the American dream/mythology.
This stereotype does seem to be disappearing though. On the one hand many have lost faith in the American dream. On the other hand the line between immigration and migration has been blurred to the point that any newcomers are increasingly viewed as a threat, to jobs and to values. The hispanic community is a good example in that so many are in America illegally, forming ever growing communities that by virtue of their size and sense of marginalization are resisting linguistic and cultural assimilation.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
With my own daughters my advice on education is to pursue post secondary that will lead to a certification or formal profession. It's all about thinning the field of competitors for any job, and it's not all about becoming doctors or marque professionals. For example, one of my best friends is a tower crane operator. The courses and certifications are hard to get, but once done, he's pretty much guaranteed work provided we're still building stuff, because the average construction worker isn't allowed to do the job and his colleagues are near retirement age. Same goes for my neighbour, she pursued nursing and specific certifications to thin the career competition. So for my daughters my only request was that they avoid the usual pitfall of girls by maintaining strong math and science courses right through high school (assuming literacy and language also), thus opening up education and then competition thinning certifications in pretty much any career field. Of course you want them to pursue fields where there is a future, so likely healthcare, bio-science (food security), engineering, etc.
But that's it, with hopefully little anxiety inducing pressure from this parent.
But that's it, with hopefully little anxiety inducing pressure from this parent.
Tewder
Senior Member
WASP parents don't love their children any less or any more than European parents. The approach is not 'uncaring' for the sake of being uncaring. This is a gross misunderstanding. The approach is more one of 'tough love', the believe being that you are not doing your children any favours in life by helping them too much, that a little struggle and hardship is good and builds character, that you won't truly succeed until you figure it out and earn it for yourself...
This is changing too, by the way. The WASP culture you talk of is more that of older generations when you were considered 'over the hill' at 25. Younger WASPS - is there even such a thing anymore? - are more likely to be helicopter parents.
Filip
Senior Member
Agreed - because the tough love approach worked 40 years ago when jobs were a dime a dozen and you could buy a house for under your first year's salary.
Today's realities aren't conducive to this approach - and probably why many folks in my generation struggle to get their lives together.