Toronto The HUB | 258.46m | 59s | Oxford Properties | Rogers Stirk Harbour

Undead said:
Savage! Yeah, I agree, although I think because my job requires a good command of written English, it won't be getting outsourced to India. But I suggest I am not in a small percentage at all. Quite the contrary. Even people who provide value in the office can be miserable and would be better working from home two-three days a week.

I'm convinced the majority of office workers don't need to be in the office five days. I've yet to see anything in the corporate world to suggest otherwise.
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Yes, I agree, most people can get away with 2x a week from home, 3 is pushing it I think. Jobs won’t necessarily be outsourced to India, they can be other parts of Canada, rural USA, who knows . But then a lot of questions arise, down the road 4-5x years from now, who will a company promote, the person coming in 5x a week or 2x a week? Who will a company with an office in downtown Toronto hire? Someone who lives close by and wants to come in 4 days a week or someone in Brampton who will show up once a week?

Also, when we really get into the fine details, it sounds like what youre saying is people don’t need to work 5x a week, which I agree with. We should all work less. Because employers know that when u tell people to come in 3 days a week, those two other days essentially become / feel like days off.
 
I already addressed the argument about promotions :)

But if it can be outsourced, why not just let current employees do it from home?..

Great discussion by the way and thank you for bearing with me. I got an axe to grind with this topic, clearly. But hopefully I learned a bit!

thrillho said:
Because employers know that when u tell people to come in 3 days a week, those two other days essentially become / feel like days off.
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Absolutely not the case at my current company or that of my family members and wasn't before the pandemic. It's time we treated employees like mature adults capable of responsibly managing their time. It's insulting and infantilizing to do otherwise. The bad apples become evident pretty quickly at which point they can be culled.

Maybe if companies granted employees basic respect, the latter would stick around.
 
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Not a problem. Reading back, there were some points where I came across as rude so I apologize for that. For the record, if I was your employer I would let you WFH permanently because that seems to make you happiest. But like I said, if the topic came up of cutting costs in a couple years, and I had to analyze ways to do so, I might start by looking at the people that I haven't seen in a while, and questioning whether I can hire someone somewhere else and pay them less, whereas the people showing up more often would be a bit safer, I think. It's just human nature (building relationships).


All the research shows that more people will work remotely permanently. My main points is that I believe this means a more distributed workforce, not necessarily a company looking to hire someone in the GTA to work permanently remotely --they would open that position up to the world. And my other point is that the office wont be dead. There will be enough people who want to come in, enough people who are trying to get promoted who will show up regularly, enough young people trying to learn, enough collaborative positions, etc. most of the higher ups will try to get their face-time and most strategy meetings will still be in person.

My best guess is a the average company will have 10-15% of their staff work permanently remotely, and 85% of their staff coming into various physical locations an average of 3-3.5 days per week.
 
I believe a hybrid approach works best, because you simply can't accommodate everyone with full-WFH or full-office. Everyone has their preferences that are dictated by their personal working habits, and surrounding working environment (work space, roommates, family & children, etc.) and these will have clear impacts on productivity both positive and negative dependent on the person.

I agree that you don't have to come into the office to answer emails, that can be done from home. However, I believe that there is real benefits to coming into the office for internal meetings with coworkers, external meetings with clients, idea generation and collaborative work, onboarding and training of new employees, interviewing, and for building company and team culture. For these reasons, I am sure that companies will mandate that workers return to the office when COVID is over, albeit with a different, more flexible, collaborative approach. Emphasis for coming to the office will be for meeting and collaborative type work that is better done in person and may necessitate coming in just 2-3 times a week, rather than coming in 5 days a week to spend a whole day answering emails (though doubtless, some if not many individuals may still opt to come in just to answer emails from their desk if that is their preference).

I think office spaces will adapt to this new reality and be remodeled with more flex spaces, coworking spaces, meeting rooms, etc. and that is the nature of change in the industry. It is assuredly not "dead" though.
 
I'd not seen these ones from RSHP's website. Forgive me if they're reposts:

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DSC said:
Renderings are always fun but they ARE only renderings and (AFAIK) there is no sign of any actual construction starting. I won't get too excited just yet!
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With the admonition that all dates are movable; that everything is subject to firm leasing..............

Oxford has this in the books as occupancy Fall 2025; that would require a start by early next year.
 
Northern Light said:
With the admonition that all dates are movable; that everything is subject to firm leasing..............

Oxford has this in the books as occupancy Fall 2025; that would require a start by early next year.
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Much as I would like that to be true, I will believe it only when I see rebar poking up above grade at Bay and Harbour Streets!
 
DSC said:
Much as I would like that to be true, I will believe it only when I see rebar poking up above grade at Bay and Harbour Streets!
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...I would like to see 'em poking in the shoring beams starting tomorrow.
 
Northern Light said:
With the admonition that all dates are movable; that everything is subject to firm leasing..............

Oxford has this in the books as occupancy Fall 2025; that would require a start by early next year.
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I could have shared this earlier..........but as is often the case, its prudent for me to wait for the info to be somewhere in the public domain.

Which I noticed Oxford had done........

thehub30bay.com

The Hub - 30 Bay: Oxford Properties Group

The Hub - 30 Bay: Connect On Every Level
thehub30bay.com thehub30bay.com

From said page:

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For further clarity, the actual occupancy shows as one quarter earlier than I said (I understood fall)


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See Timing above, bottom-right
 
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