Mississauga Square One District | ?m | 65s | Oxford Properties | Hariri Pontarini

[sixrings]

The feds have hinted that they would pitch in for the loop.

I vote liberal but I’ll believe the feds when they start fulfilling all their promises to the indigenous community. My number one problem with voting liberal is you vote for a hundred promises which really only a handful get done because everything would cost a fortune. It’s nice to make promises but it’s nicer to deliver.

 

[Tuscani01]

I vote liberal but I’ll believe the feds when they start fulfilling all their promises to the indigenous community. My number one problem with voting liberal is you vote for a hundred promises which really only a handful get done because everything would cost a fortune. It’s nice to make promises but it’s nicer to deliver.

I feel like they’ve delivered on their promises for infrastructure funding and see no reason to believe they wouldn’t provide for this.

Indigenous issues are a whole different ballpark.

 

[Lake Ontario]

Conceptual land use map from a development application for Official Plan Amendment regarding the "Rathburn District". Oxford wants to redesignate the western blocks from office use to mixed-use and permit all blocks to allow for life science uses. No development is proposed at this time.

Development application available here under "99, 189, 199, 209, 219, 299 and 309 Rathburn Road West"
Proposed OPA
Land Use Concept Plan
Planning Justification Report

 

[khris]

I'll be shocked if they can build that many office buildings here.

 

[sixrings]

I'll be shocked if they can build that many office buildings here.

Could the city not fund them and lease them like the mars building in Toronto.

 

[ProjectEnd]

I'll be shocked if they can build that many office buildings here.

They absolutely will not. Oxford knows this.

Could the city not fund them and lease them like the mars building in Toronto.

They could not, no. Unless you're leasing at basically a charity rate (and losing money every day on every building), there just isn't that level of office absorption in downtown Mississauga.

 

[sixrings]

They absolutely will not. Oxford knows this.

They could not, no. Unless you're leasing at basically a charity rate (and losing money every day on every building), there just isn't that level of office absorption in downtown Mississauga.

There isn’t currently. Maybe there isn’t projected either. But that does not mean anyone actually knows the future.

I don’t understand how there can be so many buildings built around eglinton and the transit way but people think there’s zero possible way to incentivize these companies to relocate to mcc. There’s also always new companies.

For comparison sake Vaughan has managed to get a few companies to build offices in their new “downtown”.

 

[ProjectEnd]

There isn’t currently. Maybe there isn’t projected either. But that does not mean anyone actually knows the future.

True, but Oxford knows their misstep in putting the two office buildings out here first.

I don’t understand how there can be so many buildings built around eglinton and the transit way but people think there’s zero possible way to incentivize these companies to relocate to mcc. There’s also always new companies.

The airport node is different - it's unabashedly auto-reliant. Tenants will always have parking, it's directly connected to several highways, and there's no 'threat' of mixed uses. It's also not 'strong', per se. Lots of vacancy there.

For comparison sake Vaughan has managed to get a few companies to build offices in their new “downtown”.

The only reason we got PWC and KPMG outposts in Vaughan is that Smart Centres were pressured to add some commercial to their master plan. I don't believe they're operating at a loss, but they're certainly making money on those two buildings.

 

[sixrings]

True, but Oxford knows their misstep in putting the two office buildings out here first.

The airport node is different - it's unabashedly auto-reliant. Tenants will always have parking, it's directly connected to several highways, and there's no 'threat' of mixed uses. It's also not 'strong', per se. Lots of vacancy there.

The only reason we got PWC and KPMG outposts in Vaughan is that Smart Centres were pressured to add some commercial to their master plan. I don't believe they're operating at a loss, but they're certainly making money on those two buildings.

So if smart centres were pressured to add some commercial to their master plan and they are making money on the buildings then it is indeed possible for other suburban developments to incorporate office space.

How about the four Robert speck buildings. They are kind of office tower in a park designs. Could those towers not relocate into new buildings on Rathburn and then the Robert speck buildings be torn down for some dense condominiums. https://www.mississaugaexecutivecentre.ca/tenant-directory.html

 

[Northern Light]

Could the city not fund them and lease them like the mars building in Toronto.

They could not, no. Unless you're leasing at basically a charity rate (and losing money every day on every building), there just isn't that level of office absorption in downtown Mississauga.

PE is, of course, entirely on point.

But just to add some colour. MARS the real estate holding trust actually aims to make a profit on its leases; though they certainly have some interesting arrangements. (nothing shady, just somewhat unorthodox)

That said; MARS is a very different position in a few ways.

One UHN/U of T hold the land; Two, demand is there generated by U of T and UHN.

There really is nothing comparable about Oxford-owned land in MCC.

IF you tried to imagine the comparison it would have to be land at UTM or owned by Trillium Health; and even then, it's really not the same, in part because the new Mississauga Hospital is not the research mecca that is
UHN, and also its lands are not beside those of UTM.

Edit to add: A picture of how MARS finances work: https://www.marsdd.com/wp-content/u...ry_District_Audited_Financials_March_2022.pdf

 

[sixrings]

PE is, of course, entirely on point.

But just to add some colour. MARS the real estate holding trust actually aims to make a profit on its leases; though they certainly have some interesting arrangements. (nothing shady, just somewhat unorthodox)

That said; MARS is a very different position in a few ways.

One UHN/U of T hold the land; Two, demand is there generated by U of T and UHN.

There really is nothing comparable about Oxford-owned land in MCC.

IF you tried to imagine the comparison it would have to be land at UTM or owned by Trillium Health; and even then, it's really not the same, in part because the new Mississauga Hospital is not the research mecca that is
UHN, and also its lands are not beside those of UTM.

Edit to add: A picture of how MARS finances work: https://www.marsdd.com/wp-content/u...ry_District_Audited_Financials_March_2022.pdf

Didnt Oxford give the land to the city to build a library, a city hall, and a performance arts centre. Is there no possibility that something like this can happen again. Surely the city has some sort of leverage of what can be built on the site. Ok we will approve this many floors here (more than usual) but we need over here to be offices.

 

[Tuscani01]

Didnt Oxford give the land to the city to build a library, a city hall, and a performance arts centre. Is there no possibility that something like this can happen again. Surely the city has some sort of leverage of what can be built on the site. Ok we will approve this many floors here (more than usual) but we need over here to be offices.

Those kinds of deals disappeared with the end of S.37. Developers can’t simply gift land anymore without it being considered a CBC, which is capped at 4% of the assessed land value.

 

[sixrings]

Those kinds of deals disappeared with the end of S.37. Developers can’t simply gift land anymore without it being considered a CBC, which is capped at 4% of the assessed land value.

Well surely Toronto lets people build taller buildings if they add an art component. Mississauga could add an office component to their approval process.

Mississauga people seem to me to be like Torontonians of the early 2000s. You would go into an art store downtown and everything would be Art of New York City. Our identity was that we were second fiddle. I never understood being in the distillery and buying art of New York. Thank God those days are long gone and between the condo boom, drake and the raptors torontonians grew a self esteem and I can buy local art when at the distillery. Mississauga has to get over its second fiddle complex.

 

[Northern Light]

Well surely Toronto lets people build taller buildings if they add an art component.

Toronto allows no such thing. Public art is a requirement of all buildings over a certain size. (Whether that should be the case is a different discussion)

Mississauga could add an office component to their approval process.

You cannot require to be built that for which there is no market. You can prohibit, in theory, uses you do not wish to see.

 

[sixrings]

Toronto allows no such thing. Public art is a requirement of all buildings over a certain size. (Whether that should be the case is a different discussion)



You cannot require to be built that for which there is no market. You can prohibit, in theory, uses you do not wish to see.

Ok so you can only build a certain height if you have an office component in the podium or wherever. It’s the same results. Everything being proposed is 50 floors. If just five floors of each building is office that’s a huge amount of space.