Toronto Quayside | ?m | ?s | Dream

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Greenery aside, this does look technically feasible and I don’t think there’s as much room for value engineering as it initially appears. If the timber structure is executable like they say, I have no reason to believe the rest of the project can’t resemble what we see here. Most of the architectural liberties we see in renders seem to be curves, trusses, or other features that are easily cut and non-executable in the first place. I don’t see much of that here, just good materials awareness- I don’t see that changing significantly. Maybe the scalloped balconies will be reduced/removed, if I had to guess.

Yes, this could be built as rendered. This is not science fiction/fantasy as we've seen with other lofty proposals. However, and this is the important part here, it will be entirely up to the developers whether they will proceed with this as is...or not. This is where likely ProjectEnd-san's not a *hope in hell* comes into play, as they probably won't go with this. To which would be incredibly unfortunate from this point forwards, IMO. /sigh

 

[jxmith_]

1. Has there been a condo anywhere (let alone Canada) that has successfully installed such greenery? When I consider the kind of upkeep needed, my mind goes to Tropiques Nord in Mtl- which is indoors, but from what I’ve heard, is just craaaazy maintenance. And if this kind of thing is never feasible, can developers be forced to stop including it on renderings? Looks great, entirely deceiving.

2. This is clearly not dense enough. If we’re going to solve the entire housing crisis, this should be three 80 storey towers

3. Who am I kidding, the entire housing economy depends on just Quayside and the Portlands- each tower should be 100+

4. Yes I’m being saltier than College street a week after a snowstorm first point still stands

 

[Lenser]

Thing is, not everyone wants to live in 80 story towers. You can make a good case for extensive mid-rise all along Toronto's many arterials and significantly boost density that way. Not suggesting it be the only strategy; I'm advocating for a mixed response that involves substantial mid-rise as well as dramatic high-rise.

 

[tripwire]

I'd definitely like to see a lot more mid-rise across the city.

Quayside so far looks fantastic, but I'm tampering my excitement until construction actually starts and we see where the developers cut costs.

 

[Northern Light]

1. Has there been a condo anywhere (let alone Canada) that has successfully installed such greenery?

Yes. Bosco Verticale in Milan.

Bosco Verticale in Milan: a look at sustainable architecture

The award-winning and original Bosco Verticale buildings in Milan opened in 2014 and have become a benchmark for sustainable development.

www.barcelo.com

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However, on maintenance, they did cheat..........the 'urban forest' on the building is actually maintained by Milan City Forestry staff at City expense, the residents don't cover the cost.

 

[Sunnyside]

Yes. Bosco Verticale in Milan.

Bosco Verticale in Milan: a look at sustainable architecture

The award-winning and original Bosco Verticale buildings in Milan opened in 2014 and have become a benchmark for sustainable development.

www.barcelo.com

****

However, on maintenance, they did cheat..........the 'urban forest' on the building is actually maintained by Milan City Forestry staff at City expense, the residents don't cover the cost.

This is the posterchild for greenery on buildings, and I don’t think there’s any other examples out there other than in Singapore and a few across China. Trees on buildings just don’t make sense. But, the many gardens and vine-like things in the renders should theoretically be feasible. It just looks like it would require extensive planters and those wooden trusses for the vines. Of course there’s less of an environmental benefit, but it’s always been about eyecandy anyway. Feels more like a series of gardens, which is probably a better way to “green” buildings if it means we actually get to see plants on them.

 

[Northern Light]

This is the posterchild for greenery on buildings, and I don’t think there’s any other examples out there other than in Singapore and a few across China. Trees on buildings just don’t make sense. But, the many gardens and vine-like things in the renders should theoretically be feasible. It just looks like it would require extensive planters and those wooden trusses for the vines. Of course there’s less of an environmental benefit, but it’s always been about eyecandy anyway. Feels more like a series of gardens, which is probably a better way to “green” buildings if it means we actually get to see plants on them.

You'll see significant green (but not on the scale of the Milan example) on King by 'Big'.

KING Toronto | 57.6m | 16s | Westbank | Bjarke Ingels Group

From Allied REIT's annual report: Phase I of QRC West is the largest intensification project we’ve ever undertaken. It involves the restoration of an existing Class I building and the addition of a new, LEED-certified component for combined leasable area of approximately 300,000 square...

urbantoronto.ca

There are multiple other projects for Toronto proposed/in design; and one in Windsor too.

I think you will see more of this.

I know people involved in the design of one of the Toronto proposals and I inquired about maintainability. I was given answers that satisfied me that it's been thought through. However, it's absolutely fair to say that the costs are material and that the consensus was green-at-scale on building exteriors will mostly be limited to the luxury end of the spectrum for now.

Keep in mind in reference to trees, no one is seriously contemplating Sugar Maples or Red Oaks on buildings, just the odd delusional render artist.

You're looking at a mixture of Dogwoods, Chokecherries and the like, along with some 'dwarf' cultivars. Even in Milan the largest trees have a max. height of 9M (~30ft) though I doubt they will ever be allowed to reach that.

The majority of the species selected at are in 3-5M range (9-16ft)

That said, they will require pruning, dead-tree removal, and replacement, and they do require planters physically isolated from the building structure (reinforced separation) so as not to risk root damage to critical structure.

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Trees on the sides of buildings, in large numbers, at height are unlikely to ever be a widespread thing in the near-term. But it is feasible. Vines by the way are actually more problematic in many ways, but that's a different post. LOL

 

[ProjectEnd]

Woodwards in Vancouver:

One Central Park, Sidney:

Designers Walk is proposed to look like this:

 

[AlexBozikovic]

While I share some of the skepticism about the plant material – and the waterfront design review panel did as well – it’s important to note why there are no precedents in Toronto; Nobody has really tried before.

The complexity and expense of the KING Toronto landscape far exceeds anything that’s been done in the city . Safe to assume that Dream and Great Gulf could do the same here.

If they want to, of course.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Re: precedent, yes and no, @AlexBozikovic. MLS, for example, doesn't have anything at height, but it has a beautiful terrace with pretty full trees atop the podium:

So this thread's been rather quiet lately. I should have shot pics of how well the trees have grown in over the sidewalk along York over the last several years: the amount of greenery along that stretch is amazing now. To think this was a tunnel under the railway years at one point… in any case, if anyone wandering south along York past Maple Leaf Square, feel free to post a shot of the green oasis along here.

What I did get yesterday, was this, a shot of the pool several floors above the leafy sidewalk:

View attachment 84888

I've always thought it would be a fun place for a swim.

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You're entirely correct in your last sentence though. Ambition and desire is something sorely lacking in Toronto's development culture. Not absent, per se, but anomalous.

 

[Tuscani01]

The team behind Designer’s Walk is serious about making it happen, so we should have two examples between that and the King.

On a smaller scale, 1086 Yonge also proposes to have greenery on the west end of the building to help it transition to neighbourhoods.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

From the WT Jan DRP:

https://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/sites/default/files/2023-01/WDRP-January-25-2023_Quayside_Master%20Plan%2BConceptual%20Design%20Guidelines%2BWesternCruve%2BOverstory%2BTimberHouse_Issues%20Identification.pdf

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

From the above: (only selecting renders/info that to my knowledge were not previously posted)

Note the conceptual treatment of the underside of the Gardiner on the right of the image above.

 

[jxmith_]

View attachment 452838

Trying to recall in all the Bayfront/quayside stuff- is that round building anything more than a drop in? Like, has it been detailed anywhere as an actual plan? I know I’ve seen some form of the silo building like that, but would love to see if the round building is more than fantasy

 

[interchange42]

Trying to recall in all the Bayfront/quayside stuff- is that round building anything more than a drop in? Like, has it been detailed anywhere as an actual plan? I know I’ve seen some form of the silo building like that, but would love to see if the round building is more than fantasy

I believe they're going to be initiating a design competition for the round building later this year, along with determining what should actually be in it.

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