Toronto CIBC SQUARE | 241.39m | 50s | Hines | WilkinsonEyre

  • Thread starter Suicidal Gingerbread Man
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simply Dan said:
TD has offices spread all around downtown, and have been looking to consolidate
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To a certain extent they do, yes. But is it enough to be the anchor tenant of a tower like this?
So much of TD is already in the TD Centre, plus the TD Canada Trust tower across the street. If they are looking to move out of the TD Centre then that would be a different story.
If EY is totally decamping from 222 Bay for the new EY Tower once it's completed then that would open up a big chunk of space in the only TD Centre tower that does not bear the TD name.

77 Bloor W and 110 Yonge St are the only non-TD Centre/TD Canada Trust tower addresses I can think of where TD has an actual presence downtown.
They've got a few floors of insurance at Yonge & Eglinton, a small footprint at 33 Bloor East, and some other small stuff uptown near NYCC.
Other than that it's Markham, Mississauga, The East Mall, Scarborough data operations, Burlington etc.
TD isn't nearly as widespread throughout downtown as say CIBC or RBC is, but consolidating far flung operations like Markham (which is huge) would be awesome.

-former employee here (When I worked at 77 Bloor there were often rumblings about us moving somewhere)
 
The issue with that report that concerns me is that it appears the primary driver of new office construction is poaching of existing tenants from older buildings. A necessary and natural part of the process of city renewal; however, I want to see new jobs being created as well. Competition between the major commercial developers is also a healthy thing but to what extent is this just a zero sum game of card shuffling?
 
TrickyRicky said:
The issue with that report that concerns me is that it appears the primary driver of new office construction is poaching of existing tenants from older buildings. A necessary and natural part of the process of city renewal; however, I want to see new jobs being created as well. Competition between the major commercial developers is also a healthy thing but to what extent is this just a zero sum game of card shuffling?
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If the increase in supply results in lower rental costs it might increase the desirability to locate in downtown for certain businesses. No guarantees, but it isn't a bad thing either way.

AoD
 
There will always be firms growing while others shrink, as well as others looking to move in while some simply decamp to other markets. It means that when new, buildings tend to have few tenants with large contiguous spaces. As the years tick by, the tenancy starts to fragment throughout the building and its neighbours as the tenants adjust to meet their needs better. At a certain point the ones who have grown will want to find those big contiguous spaces again. It's inevitable, and every building has a different mix in it.

So sure, a lot of this is just companies moving ("shuffling") to find efficiencies, but the new buildings ultimately allow more companies to move into the area too.

42
 
O.M.G!

(Thanks M62.)

42
 
I doubt this means anything substantial. We would have an updated application to the city, or some serious insider knowledge of a big deal happening which we don't. We've already had 2 large office tower proposals this year, and this one would be total saturation. I doubt any of these will get the green light in the near future. There's just no proof at the moment.
 
FWIW - Adamson/Pickard Chilton were the architects for the old 45 Bay Street scheme
 
77 Bloor W and 110 Yonge St are the only non-TD Centre/TD Canada Trust tower addresses I can think of where TD has an actual presence downtown.
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TD also has their in-house technology and merchant services departments at WaterPark Place (20 Bay)
 
I think this roller coaster has been around the park too many times for anyone to get excited about another potential rumour.

And we already have some great, massive projects in the works - Mirvish, Oxford, 1 Yonge - I can't believe 45 Bay could offer anything to compete with any of these.
 
I think I know what will happen here ... I42 isn't just deceiving us ... my theory; In a week or two we'll see a bunch of new shiny renderings ... and ... drum roll ... that's it : - ) I guess for us that's reason to get excited.

Recall what happened on the Front street site, the exact same thing ... yet no tenants lined up yet for that.
 
taal said:
I think I know what will happen here ... I42 isn't just deceiving us ... my theory; In a week or two we'll see a bunch of new shiny renderings ... and ... drum roll ... that's it : - ) I guess for us that's reason to get excited.

Recall what happened on the Front street site, the exact same thing ... yet no tenants lined up yet for that.
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Yep, nice they're still kicking the tires on this though.
 
Any my theory as to why; As some may ask: Well why bother spending money on a design / rendering until a tenet is secured ... well it is a well known fact several large firms are looking for space (hopefully in the core .. given most are currently based there ..) So having a 'development' ready to go to speak is a big advantage.

I say that because, just using TD as an example, I believe they wanted there space by 2017 (maybe 2018), doesn't give a lot of breathing room for a larger tower, in fact this is why such large towers probably start with only 40% leased or so (which has actually been the case for every large tower that's started actually ... BA west / RBC Water Park place / ...) The only exception I can think about is maybe RBC tower on wellington.
 
It will be two towers, with a park spanning over the railway tracks. The first tower is being built on spec apparently, while the second tower is much further down the line (2022). Design looks similar to Hearst Tower in New York.
 
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