Toronto 10 St Mary | 197.73m | 60s | Mattamy Homes | a—A

[junctionist]

Kinda, yeah. Different firms will push back in different ways. Some won't at all and will let the client drive the bus entirely. There's lots of room for friendly banter in this exchange, but if you start getting a reputation as being intransigent, regardless of how good your work is, you'll lose your client base and won't be able to work at all. 'Pick your battles' is apt in this vein.

'Stagnated' and 'honed' are different sides of the same coin. aA have always had a sharp eye and are able to deliver a consistent product regardless of the client (something even HPA sometimes struggle to do). That's extremely tough to do in this City. Further, are you trying to tell me that in your eye, Junction Point is 'essentially the same' as this? "Stagnated" indeed...

Junction Point's heavy geometry and colourful brick recall 383 Sorauren, which dates back to 2016. Junction Point is turning out to be an outstanding landmark, but it doesn't necessarily disprove my point. aA has been designing skyscrapers for, what, 20 years now? In a similar timeframe, HPA has given us more varied landmarks such as the Florian, Garrison Point, FIVE, Massey Tower, One Bloor East, and 410 Front Street (the office tower at The Well).

There's a lot more variety to their portfolio. But I was thinking, too, of the likes of Eberhard Zeidler and, to be more international, Philip Johnson. They designed outstanding works of Modernism and ended up designing some outstanding buildings in a completely different style in their older years as well--Postmodernism. One can see an interesting element of change and development over the course of their careers in their portfolios.

 

[Tarazet]

Junction Point's heavy geometry and colourful brick recall 383 Sorauren, which dates back to 2016. Junction Point is turning out to be an outstanding landmark, but it doesn't necessarily disprove my point. aA has been designing skyscrapers for, what, 20 years now? In a similar timeframe, HPA has given us more varied landmarks such as the Florian, Garrison Point, FIVE, Massey Tower, One Bloor East, and 410 Front Street (the office tower at The Well).

There's a lot more variety to their portfolio. But I was thinking, too, of the likes of Eberhard Zeidler and, to be more international, Philip Johnson. They designed outstanding works of Modernism and ended up designing some outstanding buildings in a completely different style in their older years as well--Postmodernism. One can see an interesting element of change and development over the course of their careers in their portfolios.

I agree. Philip Johnson saw the limits of Modernism and did indeed spearhead an architectural reaction to it. I thought with Ice condos that aA were moving into a more varied and interesting direction. For the most part, with a few exceptions, they haven’t. But that’s just who they are. Project End referenced Urban Shocker above. (I, too, miss his lively contributions to this forum). Many years ago, in response to a comment about the repetitive aA designs, he stated that Toronto would be lucky if every building was designed by aA. I just can’t imagine how sterile our city would look if that were the case. I generally love individual aA buildings. They show an excellent attention to detail and materials, especially curtain wall, which is so lacking in tall residential architecture in this city. But collectively, I personally find their work a bit too repetitive and restrained. I happen to love the ROM addition, for example, and applaud William Thorsell for taking the chance on Libeskind. As my first year film teacher told me many years ago, “ I’d rather see something I haven’’t seen before, regardless of whether you fully make it work or not”. The ROM, in my opinion, is a good example of that attitude. Toronto could use a bit more of that and HPA, as you mentioned, have done a decent job of doing so.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Junction Point's heavy geometry and colourful brick recall 383 Sorauren, which dates back to 2016. Junction Point is turning out to be an outstanding landmark, but it doesn't necessarily disprove my point. aA has been designing skyscrapers for, what, 20 years now? In a similar timeframe, HPA has given us more varied landmarks such as the Florian, Garrison Point, FIVE, Massey Tower, One Bloor East, and 410 Front Street (the office tower at The Well).

There's a lot more variety to their portfolio. But I was thinking, too, of the likes of Eberhard Zeidler and, to be more international, Philip Johnson. They designed outstanding works of Modernism and ended up designing some outstanding buildings in a completely different style in their older years as well--Postmodernism. One can see an interesting element of change and development over the course of their careers in their portfolios.

I'm not sure what to tell you, man. They're different offices with different foci, you don't have to like both of them.

 

[tstormers]

Few developers go international because of the expense. Big-name firms from NYC or London or Northern Europe come with substantial price tags so for residential work, most stay away unless it's rental and they're retaining it in their portfolio or they think they can get a significant price bump from that name.

In terms of their built multifamily work, which GPA building is superb? Good? Alright? Flaire is ok, I guess, but remarkable? Nah. I hope @tstormers doesn't take this the wrong way, but outside of Pina's beautiful interior work, and the firm's strong track record of sexy custom homes, which completed building in the multi-family portfolio prompts you to list them in this class? It's the same with Gabriel. Great guy, excellent paper work, but what is there in the real world to benchmark? His smaller office also isn't on the same production level as Peter. That's not a slight, but between WCB and aA, the latter is at ~30 years of running a practice with a portfolio to match.

At the end of the day this is a debate that has gone on on this website for 15+ years and it's one of which (historically) I'm on both sides. Admittedly, it took awhile for me to appreciate aA, but as soon as I came to the other side, it was revelatory. For that I'm indebted to members of a bygone era, most notably @urbanshocker (please come back, Neil, we miss you). All I can supply is an opinion formed on here and honed within this industry and what I hope to impart is a bit of a lens into a complicated, cutthroat, often completely-uncaring, business environment.

I don't take offense to much ...but this is just way to harsh...
Only kidding @ProjectEnd .
Everyone is entitled to their views on things.

I personally do like some of aA's buildings but there are probably more "cold" ones as @Northern Light mentioned than I would like, but also have to keep in mind not every building can be iconic or flashy. Both HPA and BDPQ also have a lot of good ones.

As for GPA, I do agree that we don't have many completed multi-residential buildings in our portfolio, but we do have some great looking upcoming, built & under construction projects:
Upcoming:
550 Adelaide - https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/550-adelaide-east.46818
2 East Mall Cresent - https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/2-east-mall-crescent.42878
1117 Queen West - Featured in the Toronto star - https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/1117-queen-west.54484

Built:
55 Port East - which won 2023, even though some don't agree.
North Shore - https://toronto.skyrisecities.com/database/projects/north-shore-condos.137
Flaire - like you mentioned

Under construction:
321 Davenport - https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/321-davenport.20876
The Whitfield - https://urbantoronto.ca/database/projects/whitfield.36331

Just a few to get up there and agreed that most aren't completed yet to your point. So whether or not you think these would raise your view of GPA is up to you, but I think these would help. I do have some architectural taste that some don't agree with though haha.

Always a pleasure reading your thoughts and everyone's on here, especially on ones I've had my hand in. Like my favourite career project so far - https://www.atlantis.com/atlantis-the-royal

 

[ProjectEnd]

Thanks for the insider perspective, @tstormers. My apologies, I would absolutely add 55 Port East to that list as well.

Regarding the up-and-coming stuff, I am hopeful, yes (and I will say that I do really like Ralph as a person) but the proof just needs to be in the pudding when things go up. Battling developers and constructors is part of the task, and knowing how and when to push back for the best results is both an art and a science. I would say that I'm doubtful 1117 Queen West is anything more than a flashy zoning exercise (which I'll put on the St. Helen's folks, not GPA) and 550 Adelaide is perhaps more realistic but still without a proponent, so I wouldn't put those in any portfolio at this time. 321 Davenport, The Whitfield and Adagio will very much will be the test subjects.

 

[innsertnamehere]

BDPQ has proven quite capable as well as @Northern Light pointed out - but probably has a higher variability in design quality by partner on the file than any other major local firm. Some of the partners are putting out some of the best work in the city, some are building stuff which rivals the lows of IBI / G+C / Richmond / Turner Fleisher.

 

[tstormers]

Thanks for the insider perspective, @tstormers. My apologies, I would absolutely add 55 Port East to that list as well.

Regarding the up-and-coming stuff, I am hopeful, yes (and I will say that I do really like Ralph as a person) but the proof just needs to be in the pudding when things go up. Battling developers and constructors is part of the task, and knowing how and when to push back for the best results is both an art and a science. I would say that I'm doubtful 1117 Queen West is anything more than a flashy zoning exercise (which I'll put on the St. Helen's folks, not GPA) and 550 Adelaide is perhaps more realistic but still without a proponent, so I wouldn't put those in any portfolio at this time. 321 Davenport, The Whitfield and Adagio will very much will be the test subjects.

Agreed. Proof is in the pudding so to speak. Fingers crossed