Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[Northern Light]

Thanks, Northern.

I think we could end up seeing something like this, a subway extension+LRT hybrid, with the Victoria Park North Station being pitched as a "Gateway to Scarborough."

What makes you think that?

 

[micheal_can]

Does anyone have an estimate for what a two-stop (Consumers and Vic Park) Sheppard subway extension would cost? Recall Karen Stintz proposed this a decade ago.

I am kind of confused. Why not go to the future McCowen station? It is about 7km. It could have between 3-7 stations and actually make Line 4 very useful.

 

[christiesplits]

What makes you think that?

It feels like a very Ford thing to do. It would be a cheap (ok, cheaper) political gesture to show that his government loves Scarborough, it aligns with Ford's preference for subways, and he can punt the funding for the LRT portion.

 

[Northern Light]

It feels like a very Ford thing to do. It would be a cheap (ok, cheaper) political gesture to show that his government loves Scarborough, it aligns with Ford's preference for subways, and he can punt the funding for the LRT portion.

Anything is possible, until the decision is made, but my sense is that this plays out a bit differently. We shall see.

 

[dowlingm]

I am kind of confused. Why not go to the future McCowen station? It is about 7km. It could have between 3-7 stations and actually make Line 4 very useful.

The reason was that the two stop extension would largely mirror the required tunnel route for the Sheppard E LRT. It would be some more money but would not chop up Don Mills terminus as was proposed by Transit City. I thought it was a good idea as it wasn’t a big delta and the LRT-subway interchange could happen at a purpose built facility.

However, that was when Line 2 was to end at Kennedy. After that Stintz and de Baeremaeker threw in with the subway champions and that was the end of Sheppard East extension plans

 

[micheal_can]

The reason was that the two stop extension would largely mirror the required tunnel route for the Sheppard E LRT. It would be some more money but would not chop up Don Mills terminus as was proposed by Transit City. I thought it was a good idea as it wasn’t a big delta and the LRT-subway interchange could happen at a purpose built facility.

However, that was when Line 2 was to end at Kennedy. After that Stintz and de Baeremaeker threw in with the subway champions and that was the end of Sheppard East extension plans

So, why not look to the future instead of the past? Now that the subway is going to Sheppard, why not completely scrap all Sheppard E LRT and instead focus on just extending the Sheppard Subway to McCowan?

 

[dowlingm]

So, why not look to the future instead of the past? Now that the subway is going to Sheppard, why not completely scrap all Sheppard E LRT and instead focus on just extending the Sheppard Subway to McCowan?

The LRT was supposed to go past McCowan and serve Malvern. Also if Line 4 keeps being extended it will need a yard and not merely moving trains to facilities on Line 1 and parking in tail tracks.

Where on Sheppard East on the stretch to McCowen is there a plausible yard location, other than some notion of using the CP Agincourt hump land someone posited a while back?

 

[Aplus23]

The LRT was supposed to go past McCowan and serve Malvern. Also if Line 4 keeps being extended it will need a yard and not merely moving trains to facilities on Line 1 and parking in tail tracks.

Where on Sheppard East on the stretch to McCowen is there a plausible yard location, other than some notion of using the CP Agincourt hump land someone posited a while back?

The plan is to extend Sheppard west so trains can go to n from the Wilson yard, and extend it east to McCown n Sheppard. EELRT would link up with McCown n Sheppard

 

[NIV]

I see Sheppard being extended west and possibly one or two stations east before a full extension to McCowan. Connecting the Allen rd side with Yonge needs to finally happen especially with the Finch LRT starting up and the Yonge Subway extension on its way.

 

[MrGoose]

What would be the extra cost of extending the Sheppard subway from McCowan to Malvern Town Center with a stop at Sheppard and Markham Rd

 

[Northern Light]

What would be the extra cost of extending the Sheppard subway from McCowan to Malvern Town Center with a stop at Sheppard and Markham Rd

Stations at a very crude level would be the same as above, but you have greater tunnel distance, ~3.7km or so.

That gives you a low-end range of 2B, to a top end of maybe 2.5B

There's a lot of fuzzy in there such as what land is used to build an above-grade station and how large that station is, and whether you could get closer to the surface and maybe cut and cover some of the route.

The route I show below uses the old Canadian Northern Right-of-Way north of Sheppard:

The ROW is 30M wide. In theory, wide enough for tunnel or trench; though you're running between backyards, so people would love that.

The ROW at Street level today:

 

[DirectionNorth]

It feels like a very Ford thing to do. It would be a cheap (ok, cheaper) political gesture to show that his government loves Scarborough, it aligns with Ford's preference for subways, and he can punt the funding for the LRT portion.

Ford's other transit projects have been very big. As I see it:

"If we're already spending $1+ billion to go to Victoria Park, may as well make it go the whole way. Subways, subways, subways!"
- someone in the Ford government, probably

I see a full subway, probably bundled with Sheppard West, as more likely. I think in 2026, we see just this one project (the other speculated ones I think come at the 2030 election), a subway from Sheppard West all the way to the SSE.

 

[micheal_can]

The LRT was supposed to go past McCowan and serve Malvern. Also if Line 4 keeps being extended it will need a yard and not merely moving trains to facilities on Line 1 and parking in tail tracks.

Where on Sheppard East on the stretch to McCowen is there a plausible yard location, other than some notion of using the CP Agincourt hump land someone posited a while back?

If it had a connection to Line 2, it could use those yards too. Not ideal, but it is a possibility. An LRT would also need a yard, so where was it going to be plunked down?

 

[dowlingm]

If it had a connection to Line 2, it could use those yards too. Not ideal, but it is a possibility. An LRT would also need a yard, so where was it going to be plunked down?

What “yards” for Line 2?. There is Greenwood and that’s it. Obico is looking quite far in the future, and Vincent isn’t worth counting.

As for Wilson, yes, if Sheppard is also extended west (and the billion dollar Humber crossing at Bathurst). But now the cost is rocketing even further AND quite a large number of eggs are in the Wilson basket.

EDIT: the proposed LRT yard was at Sheppard and Conlins.

 

[micheal_can]

What “yards” for Line 2?. There is Greenwood and that’s it. Obico is looking quite far in the future, and Vincent isn’t worth counting.

As for Wilson, yes, if Sheppard is also extended west (and the billion dollar Humber crossing at Bathurst). But now the cost is rocketing even further AND quite a large number of eggs are in the Wilson basket.

Where was the LRT yard going to be built?