Roads: Gardiner Expressway catch-all, incl. Hybrid Design (2015-onwards)

[nfitz]

Fair point. However, you should be able to expense the toll to your employer, not pay out of pocket.

I'd be cycling and/or taxiing. Heck, I've used transit (where it's faster than driving) combined with a taxi for the last mile, and I've both been quicker, and billed my employer less than if I was driving! Not to mention more productive.

 

[Rainforest]

The problem with that is that there are very few swing ridings in Toronto, relatively speaking.

The swing ridings are mostly in the 905; which, interestingly, is also where you'll find the majority of drivers who use the DVP/Gardiner, who are not, for the most part, City residents.

I checked the outcomes in the Toronto ridings on the 2022 and 2014 provincial election maps

Ontario election results 2022: Poll-by-poll riding vote map | Globalnews.ca

Results from the 2022 Ontario election, where Doug Ford and the Ontario Progressive Conservatives have won a second consecutive majority government.

globalnews.ca

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Ontario_Provincial_Election_2014_Riding_Results_Map.svg

In 2022: 25 total ridings; 12 PC / 4 Lib / 9 NDP

In 2014: 22 total ridings; 0 PC / 20 Lib / 2 NDP

Total seats in the Ontario Legislature: 124. Out of those, +12 or -12 is a big deal. Almost 10%.

 

[evandyk]

I'm a youth outreach worker working at several different locations downtown. There's no way I can travel by transit to downtown, and then travel by transit to different locations. My 8hr work day would be on local transit. With another 2 hrs for commute to and from home.

Tolls would help people like you who actually need to travel by car for work or other reasons. You(r employer) would pay a few dollars, but you wouldn't be sitting in traffic all day.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Tolls would help people like you who actually need to travel by car for work or other reasons. You(r employer) would pay a few dollars, but you wouldn't be sitting in traffic all day.

Reimbursement of parking fees could be paid by the employer. However, it should be a taxable benefit if they do so. Same with parking in that office park parking lot in the suburbs.

 

[dullturtle06]

Tolls would help people like you who actually need to travel by car for work or other reasons. You(r employer) would pay a few dollars, but you wouldn't be sitting in traffic all day.

All these white collar workers having their employer pay their expenses, great lala land. Of only you realized most workers do not get such a privilege and you be paying out of pocket. Once again these solutions will hurt the lower paid workers the most and benefit the higher paid workers the most. And no, not talking about minimum wage, but people making just enough to live in the suburbs for lower rent and afford a old car to have a way to get to work.

 

[SashaLemon]

All these white collar workers having their employer pay their expenses, great lala land. Of only you realized most workers do not get such a privilege and you be paying out of pocket. Once again these solutions will hurt the lower paid workers the most and benefit the higher paid workers the most. And no, not talking about minimum wage, but people making just enough to live in the suburbs for lower rent and afford a old car to have a way to get to work.

So what's your solution then? Typically you should include that in a debate like this instead of purely complaining about the general consensus.

It's either removal, tolls, or the province shoulders the cost.

 

[dullturtle06]

So what's your solution then? Typically you should include that in a debate like this instead of purely complaining about the general consensus.

It's either removal, tolls, or the province shoulders the cost.

My solution is MTO takes over the city expressways. They city has been horrible in maintaining them, and as they are regional important highways they should be funded so. I am against tolls on highways except for express lanes, not the full highway. So for example I would be okay if 401 express was toll and collectors are free.

 

[evandyk]

Then the highways will always be congested, and bottlenecked by capacity at the exits. It’s a valid trade off, just not the one I’d choose.

 

[Rainforest]

All these white collar workers having their employer pay their expenses, great lala land. Of only you realized most workers do not get such a privilege and you be paying out of pocket. Once again these solutions will hurt the lower paid workers the most and benefit the higher paid workers the most. And no, not talking about minimum wage, but people making just enough to live in the suburbs for lower rent and afford a old car to have a way to get to work.

There is a difference between the large number of workers who drive to their place of work and just park there, and a smaller group who needs to drive while they are doing their job.

The former group should be encouraged to use public transit, especially if their workplace is in downtown. If they still prefer to drive, they should pay the tolls.

On the other hand, those who need to drive while they are doing their job have to be accommodated. Either exempt from the tolls or compensated by their employer, whichever works.

Say, a public employee doing the youth outreach work, as mentioned earlier in the thread, should be compensated by the public agency that employes them.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Meanwhile...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627095350350864387

 

[EnviroTO]

Those poor people in Dusseldorf. All those people that can't do a drive by viewing of the river are stuck walking and even laying on the grass they are so tired. People bought apartments to look at cars and now they are stuck looking at greenery and the river. So sad

 

[innsertnamehere]

Meanwhile...

be careful with that example - Dusseldorf did not remove the highway, but rather buried it:

Full freeway removals with no form of major capacity replacement where the freeways are not vastly underused or stub routes remain exceedingly rare in the western world.

A full deletion of the Gardiner with no replacement would be basically unheard of globally.

 

[SashaLemon]

be careful with that example - Dusseldorf did not remove the highway, but rather buried it:

View attachment 457621

Full freeway removals with no form of major capacity replacement where the freeways are not vastly underused or stub routes remain exceedingly rare in the western world.

A full deletion of the Gardiner with no replacement would be basically unheard of globally.

A surface boulevard would be the cheapest replacement. It would still discourage drivers because it would be slower, and it would remove the ugly and costly elevated structure.

 

[Ward8]

Full freeway removals with no form of major capacity replacement where the freeways are not vastly underused or stub routes remain exceedingly rare in the western world.

A full deletion of the Gardiner with no replacement would be basically unheard of globally.

In this case, it essentially is a stub removal (though a larger stub than most) being replaced by a large boulevard and other capacity enhancements in the form of GO electrification and the Ontario Line. Given the cities finances, this is a no brainer.... Unless the the province picks up the tab or allows tolling. The cost is so astronomical and cumbersome to the budget that even the most apocalyptic traffic predictions aren't worth the cost of replacement.

 

[innsertnamehere]

In this case, it essentially is a stub removal (though a larger stub than most) being replaced by a large boulevard and other capacity enhancements in the form of GO electrification and the Ontario Line. Given the cities finances, this is a no brainer.... Unless the the province picks up the tab or allows tolling. The cost is so astronomical and cumbersome to the budget that even the most apocalyptic traffic predictions aren't worth the cost of replacement.

The Gardiner is definitely not a “stub” highway in the sense that I intended. The Gardiner east of the DVP which was demolished 20 years ago was a stub. The Gardiner into downtown is definitely not that.