Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[steveintoronto]

Fair enough. However, once they’re full-time, as the vast majority of teachers are, they’re in a different universe from private sector employees.

No they're not. They're hired by contract. And what they get paid is based on how many hours they work. A specialty means a higher grade of pay per time worked. Just like many other contract workers.

You don't know any teachers, do you?

 

[steveintoronto]

Teaching can be a rewarding career and a good job, but it's not the free ride that people like to call it.

Which is one of the reasons teachers are quitting the profession:

Ontario teacher shortage looming, educators warn | CBC News - CBC.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ontario-quebec-teacher-shortage-1.4803517
Aug 30, 2018 - Just three years after the Ontario government cut teachers college enrolment in half, the province may be heading toward a teacher shortage.
London school boards face shortage of teachers, supply staff - CBC.ca

https://www.cbc.ca/news/.../london-ontario-school-boards-teacher-shortage-1.481036...
Sep 5, 2018 - With the first week of classes underway, officials from London's two school boards say they're facing a shortage of teachers and supply staff to fill growing vacancies. The news comes after reports that Ontario is heading toward a teacher shortage. ... The London District Catholic ...
Shortage of Ontario teachers on the horizon - Peterborough ...

https://globalnews.ca/news/4421539/shortage-ontario-teachers-horizon/
Aug 31, 2018 - The education system in Ontario is currently in "crisis" mode, due to what some are calling a crippling low number of teachers in the province.
School teacher shortage in Canada - Radio Canada International

www.rcinet.ca/en/2018/09/04/school-teacher-shortage-in-canada/
Sep 4, 2018 - Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia, and Nunavut Territory are all reporting teacher shortages. In other provinces there are regional shortages, ...

There's An Extreme Teacher Shortage In This Canadian Province And ...

https://www.narcity.com/.../theres-an-extreme-teacher-shortage-in-this-canadian-provi...
It might be hard to land a teaching position in provinces like Ontario, where secure teaching jobs are hard to come by thanks to the overwhelming number of ...

Supply teacher shortage wreaks havoc in schools across Ontario | The ...

https://www.thestar.com › News › GTA
Apr 10, 2018 - A rising number of teachers calling in sick and a shortage of supply staff available to replace them is creating an “untenable” situation for ...
[...]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=onta...12j1j7&client=ubuntu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[zang]

And many teachers do spend their summers "off" taking courses, which comes after cleaning out the classroom after the kids have finished up for the year and before setting up the classroom before the kids return.

I used to think that teachers had it easy. Then I got to know some and saw the hours they put in. Summer ends up being lieu time to make up for all the overtime they put in during the school year.

And yes, there are people who abuse it, who don't put in the extra time or take courses, but that happens in any sector. There are lazy lawyers and doctors too.

Teaching can be a rewarding career and a good job, but it's not the free ride that people like to call it.

Indeed, especially when many teachers put in their own money into their classrooms.

 

[steveintoronto]

Indeed, especially when many teachers put in their own money into their classrooms.

A very close lady friend of mine, bless her, she cares too much, and gets no thanks from the 'system'....would often buy books for her needy students out of her own pocket in her earlier years. She cared too much, and almost had a nervous breakdown from trying so hard.

She reverted to her Library Science degree to transfer to becoming the school librarian, the workload was less, unpaid prep time less, and the pressure to provide for needy students less. She wouldn't have survived otherwise. Upper level staff don't help. Principles and Veeps get there by climbing the ladder and kicking those off who get in the way of their success. Teachers have very little support from above when it comes to problem students.

Due to her excellent French language skills, (she's Franco Ontarian) and the near impossibility of hiring French teachers in this part of Ontario now (for whatever reason) she was pressured into splitting her teaching contract between library and french this year.

And yes, her math skills are poor. Conceptual math comes very easily to me, I work in electronics and physics, and even with an aging intellect, fractions can display themselves as percentiles as an automatic sub-mental function for me. It isn't the case for many people. It has absolutely nothing to do with her ability to teach the subjects she does, and yet the likes of the fug-shid Ford goes out of (its) way to trip up dedicated and proficient teachers for the sake of being the nasty fug he is.

Welcome to Ontario! I can tell you, those signs now being erected on the highways are going to be pallets for expressive vile against the Fug Master. And well deserved too.

Fug Ford couldn't even run a label company, let alone add two and two together.

 

[zang]

She reverted to her Library Science degree to transfer to becoming the school librarian, the workload was less, unpaid prep time less, and the pressure to provide for needy students less. She wouldn't have survived otherwise. Upper level staff don't help. Principles and Veeps get there by climbing the ladder and kicking those off who get in the way of their success. Teachers have very little support from above when it comes to problem students.

My daughter is in a downtown junior school. There's construction all around it; it's overcrowded (as the enrollment has nearly doubled in the last decade due to condos), and lacking in amenities like a big school yard or proper climate control. But I wouldn't trade it for any other in the area because the teachers that work there are absolutely fantastic. The in-school daycare is one of the best rated in the city. Even the principal is just a really awesome guy who truly cares about the kids.

It really is the people who make education good or bad, and enticing and keeping good teachers should be the ultimate priority in education. Not tests pandering to spiteful populace that ignores the importance of education.

 

[BurlOak]

Teaching is not a nine to five job.

At my school it was more like an 8 to 3 job.

 

[Filip]

At my school it was more like an 8 to 3 job.

Seriously.. I'm reading this thread and shaking my head...

I have a parent, a friend, and relatives who are public school teachers. I only WISH I had their gig. Yes, there's prep work involved, but it's nothing more than 2-3h on a Sunday, or a week and a half prior to the school year beginning. These guys are off for 3 months. I would sell my left testicle to be off for that long, and still keep my job and decent salary/benefits!

Teachers who complain about how hard they have it have no sympathy from me... Go live a week in my shoes, you wouldn't last.

 

[PinkLucy]

That definitely doesn't reflect the experience of my friend who was a high school math teacher and had phone calls from students every evening as well as prepping work, marking work, etc. most weekday evenings and yes, Sunday afternoons. Or my friend who is an elementary school teacher who has taken courses every summer since she started. Or my friend who is a kindergarten teacher who had to deal with parents who expected the teacher to change diapers.

The teachers I know don't complain. They love their work.

 

[steveintoronto]

These guys are off for 3 months.

And they don't get paid for it. They have the option for the disbursement of their contract's salary to be issued over twelve months, but that's not what their contract is for.

Summer School is a separate contract.

Addendum:

Teachers are paid, and contracted, for the months that school is open. It's part of the reason that teachers make less than other professionals. In other words,teachers aren't enjoying a paid vacation in the summer; instead, they have a job that runs nine months a year.Jun 22, 2015

Do Teachers Really Get Summers Off? - PayScale

https://www.payscale.com/career-news/2015/06/do-teachers-really-get-summers-off

Do Teachers Get Paid During Their Breaks? | Chron.com

https://work.chron.com › Career Advice › Getting Ahead at Work
Jun 28, 2018 - The coveted break many teachers receive over the summer can present a big problem. When they don't work, they don't get paid. School ...

Paid summer breaks and other common myths about teachers

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/15/us/teacher-pay-myth-misconception/index.html
Apr 15, 2018 - As teachers in several states across the United States protest for higher pay and more ... MYTH: Teachers have a paid summer vacation.

and so on...

Amazing the lack of educational skills some of the public display on these matters...

 

[steveintoronto]

At my school it was more like an 8 to 3 job.

Which reformatory was that?

 

[Thinker]

Which reformatory was that?

At his end of the woods that would have been Mimico

 

[Filip]

And they don't get paid for it. They have the option for the disbursement of their contract's salary to be issued over twelve months, but that's not what their contract is for.

Summer School is a separate contract.

Addendum:

Do Teachers Really Get Summers Off? - PayScale

https://www.payscale.com/career-news/2015/06/do-teachers-really-get-summers-off




and so on...

Amazing the lack of educational skills some of the public display on these matters...

Their salaries are in line with ours - just spread over the working months. It’s not like they’re missing two months of pay in the overall scheme of things. Annually they’re getting well in the high 5 figures.

Don’t provide me teacher union propaganda to change my opinion. Based on first hand experience it ain’t changing...

 

[steveintoronto]

Their salaries are in line with ours - just spread over the working months. It’s not like they’re missing two months of pay in the overall scheme of things. Annually they’re getting well in the high 5 figures.

Don’t provide me teacher union propaganda to change my opinion. Based on first hand experience it ain’t changing...

What a piece of work you are. Try providing a reference before spouting off.

Here's from that Union loving, Commie, Leftie, revolutionary NatPost:

Toronto tells a similar tale, with secondary school teacher salaries averaging $87,000, followed closely by their elementary counterparts at $82,000. Add in benefits and the numbers clock in at a hair under $100,000 annually. For comparison, the median family income in Ontario is$75,000.Aug 25, 2015

Allan Richarz: Ontario's teachers are overpaid | National Post

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/allan-richarz-ontarios-teachers-are-overpaid

You want to reduce costs? Do away with the Separate Schools and merge the rest.

 

[Thinker]

Their salaries are in line with ours - just spread over the working months. It’s not like they’re missing two months of pay in the overall scheme of things. Annually they’re getting well in the high 5 figures.

Don’t provide me teacher union propaganda to change my opinion. Based on first hand experience it ain’t changing...

Interesting response, but seriously how much do you think teachers yearly salary should be worth?

Like in all sectors, skilled workers should be paid according to their skills, if you think they are overpaid think about this: Teachers have a huge amount of influence on the lives of our children and on average spend more time rearing and educating pupils than the average working parents. Unskilled teachers will bring forth uneducated generations.

 

[Northern Light]

In discussing teacher pay; as apart from other education funding issues and/or working conditions; perhaps it would be best to compare numbers around the globe.

Note that these numbers are in USD and when translated, are in line (Canada number) w/current Ontario numbers.

This suggests our teachers are 7th highest paid in the world.

So, how does that compare in light of educational results?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40708421

http://www.oecd.org/pisa/pisa-2015-results-in-focus.pdf

Across a range of indicators, including PISA scores, graduation rates, and level of post-secondary education, Canada's system(s) overall produce as either 5th or 6th best in the world.

That would be above the pay level rank.

Its also worth adding none of the countries w/higher pay are above us in educational ranking.

That suggests we are valuing teachers (in terms of pay) just about perfectly.

***

I don't mind arguments about how the school year is structured (how many days and when); nor that performance should be better still; or that some benefits (short-term disability) are problematic in their structure.

All fair game.

So long as we add, we under fund certain things in our system, from tech to field trips, to lunch programs to support staff, which are often partially offset by teachers dipping into their pockets, or volunteering time beyond that for which they are paid.

We also need to discuss how some of these 'benefits' are offset by other means.

As someone who T.A'd for a year in a elementary school, while finishing University (I considered teaching) I can tell you not only is the work load high; but also that teacher pay, at the time, was 6x per year, roughly once every six weeks.

So there are 'hassles' that diminish the value of some perks.