Montréal Transit Developments

[steveintoronto]

RER as a dramatic improvement in service levels and operating cost efficiency is definitely still a thing.

Until such time as newer technology (by our standards, we're already over a gen behind most advanced nations) and a more integrated regional system and fares are integrated, there will be no "improvement (in)...operating cost efficiency". In fact just by adding more of the same in terms of 15 min service all day on some lines without matching local service, cost efficiency will actually decline.

Meantime the operating budget for Metrolinx is being slashed, and some very useful if presently underutilized bus services are being axed while QP gets bragging rights for running virtually empty "added trains" every fifteen minutes during the day...DD coach and diesel hauled.

Nascent may be the operative word here!

That is the point! They've yet to deliver, and there's scant signs of them doing so. Just adding extra diesel hauled DD 12 car consists mid-day to destinations without a connecting 15 min bus service is just plain waste in the name of 'expansion'.

 

[p_xavier]

Pierrefonds-Roxboro residents talk parking and urban boulevard

Pierrefonds-Roxboro residents grilled a panel of light-rail experts about parking and the in-demand urban boulevard.

montrealgazette.com

REM public affairs director Virginie Cousineau said she was sensitive to the issue but that the boulevard was the responsibility of the
Montreal Agglomeration Council. She stressed that the 67-kilometre, 26-station REM should be thought of as a metro system rather than a commuter train service and that the REM’s vision was for commuters to leave the car at home and access the network using alternative transportation methods such as car-sharing services, bicycle, taxi, city bus or by foot.

 

[steveintoronto]

She stressed that the 67-kilometre, 26-station REM should be thought of as a metro system rather than a commuter train service

Other aspects of discussion in play aside, that's a profound statement to make in a legal sense. I wonder if something in REM's governance verifies that?

I suspect that statement is going to be seized on by a number of persons as per the mandate for REM. Again, very close parallels to the Sydney Metro acquisition and non-backward conversion of extant commuter line tunnels.

First stage of controversial Sydney Metro opens - News Ahead

[...]

The Sydney Morning Herald reports that four top former rail executives warn that the metro line will result in “degradation of the robustness and reliability” of Sydney's existing heavy rail network, and “ultimately lead to the total network becoming gridlocked and unworkable.” The executives include Ron Christie, the director-general for rail who wrote a landmark report on Sydney’s train system in 2001. They argue that the New South Wales state government would have been better to upgrade the existing double-deck rail system for the money spent on the Metro.

Single-deck trains will run along the new metro line, another point of contention. The executives point out that the metro trains will have significantly fewer seats than the present double-deck trains and therefore require many passengers to stand.
[...]

 

[robmausser]

REM should be thought of as a metro system rather than a commuter train service and that the REM’s vision was for commuters to leave the car at home

You can think what you want but putting stations in the median of a highway at the car home leave does not.

 

[steveintoronto]

You can think what you want but putting stations in the median of a highway at the car home leave does not.

To be clear, you are quoting the REM spokesperson, not @p_xavier .

I was just checking some background on claims. Readers might find this interesting:
http://www.cat-bus.com/2016/08/the-caisses-debunking-debunked/

Unfortunately Anton is now missing in action, the last blog was a year and a half ago.

 

[jje1000]

RER as a dramatic improvement in service levels and operating cost efficiency is definitely still a thing, though still many years from completion.

RER as an upgrade of existing stations and addition new stations is effectively on hold. That said, the off-corridor (station) package can be revived as quickly as it was deferred.

IMO the first element is more difficult and more important than the latter.

The Conservatives can fuss around with private funding of the stations however much they want, but if the first element is planned properly, you can insert as many stations as you like down the road.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

Some more updates on the progress of the elevated tracks as part of the Ste-Anne-Bellevue branch of the REM. Work has started this week on the assembly of the elevated track assembly, assisted by two launching gantries. The total length of the elevated tracks for this branch will be 13.5 km, and the gantries are capable of completing 40 m every 2 days. In total the supplier for this has manufactured 4102 concrete segments that can be installed by the gantries.

Chantier du REM: «Anne» et «Marie» s’activent dans l’Ouest

Les ingénieurs les ont affectueusement appelées « Anne » et « Marie ». Au cours des prochains mois, ces deux monstres d’acier vont hisser quelque 4100 blocs de béton de 45 tonnes qui, une fois assemblés, constitueront une des plus longues structures aériennes du monde. Visite d’un chantier qui...

www.lapresse.ca

 

[p_xavier]

Here's a media briefing update on the project.

https://rem.info/sites/default/files/document/REM-media-briefing-june-2019.pdf

 

[cplchanb]

Here's a media briefing update on the project.

https://rem.info/sites/default/files/document/REM-media-briefing-june-2019.pdf

considering the scope of work, construction appears to be going very quickly. If only work can be this quick in the gta.....

 

[jje1000]

considering the scope of work, construction appears to be going very quickly. If only work can be this quick in the gta.....

I wonder how fast construction will be on the Davenport grade separation, and if they'll utilize the same construction techniques. Could be a good yardstick to measure against.

I think with REM, the difference is that they were seemingly able to do a lot of the pre-planning away from the politician's eyes, credit to the Caisse and the Liberals. That means when it was time to fund it, it was almost shovel-ready and probably less subject to typical governmental foot-dragging (like with Metrolinx). I think a similar model was applied with success to the Canada Line, and it'll be interesting seeing how our equivalent RER project will fare.

The more pressing issue in Toronto as elsewhere is that a tremendous amount of time is wasted on politicking and replanning designs (see Ontario Line) even before construction starts. Even transit project in Quebec aren't immune to this, as the whole issue with the Pink Line shows.

 

[nfitz]

Even transit project in Quebec aren't immune to this, as the whole issue with the Pink Line shows.

Or the still unbuilt extensions to the Blue Line, Yellow Line, and Orange Line that they re-announced 10 years ago starting this thread

 

[SFO-YYZ]

I wonder how fast construction will be on the Davenport grade separation, and if they'll utilize the same construction techniques. Could be a good yardstick to measure against.

I think with REM, the difference is that they were seemingly able to do a lot of the pre-planning away from the politician's eyes, credit to the Caisse and the Liberals. That means when it was time to fund it, it was almost shovel-ready and probably less subject to typical governmental foot-dragging (like with Metrolinx). I think a similar model was applied with success to the Canada Line, and it'll be interesting seeing how our equivalent RER project will fare.

The more pressing issue in Toronto as elsewhere is that a tremendous amount of time is wasted on politicking and replanning designs (see Ontario Line) even before construction starts. Even transit project in Quebec aren't immune to this, as the whole issue with the Pink Line shows.

I think the most unique aspect of the REM is that it's an entirely separate system - separate in the way that it will have a new fare structure, entirely new and separate branding, and separate owner and operating entity removed from the existing public transit agencies that tend to drag their feet on major projects and experience lots of political interference.

Moreover, the Caisse has made it clear from day 1 that it is in the business of making a sustainable ROI for its public and private investors with this project, aka "this is the system we are proposing, and we are going to follow this proposal because we won't tolerate overt interference because we want to see a healthy ROI from this thing..." I think that message has been made abundantly clear both to the public and governments at all levels from the get go. I remember in the early days of the announcement (around summer 2016) when several local NGOs and municipalities made a series of court challenges on the feasibility and environmental impact of the Caisse's proposed REM route, all of which were quickly dismissed in court and that was the end of the matter.

 

[p_xavier]

I think the most unique aspect of the REM is that it's an entirely separate system - separate in the way that it will have a new fare structure, entirely new and separate branding, and separate owner and operating entity removed from the existing public transit agencies that tend to drag their feet on major projects and experience lots of political interference.

Moreover, the Caisse has made it clear from day 1 that it is in the business of making a sustainable ROI for its public and private investors with this project, aka "this is the system we are proposing, and we are going to follow this proposal because we won't tolerate overt interference because we want to see a healthy ROI from this thing..." I think that message has been made abundantly clear both to the public and governments at all levels from the get go. I remember in the early days of the announcement (around summer 2016) when several local NGOs and municipalities made a series of court challenges on the feasibility and environmental impact of the Caisse's proposed REM route, all of which were quickly dismissed in court and that was the end of the matter.

On these two points, the fare structure will be the same as all other Montreal transit companies (decided by the ARTM). The REM gates will use an OPUS a card.
Branding, besides the logo, is being done by the STM and the REM conjointly. This was announced in the media this week directly by the STM that they are working on the wayfinding for the REM/EXO.

 

[rbt]

Moreover, the Caisse has made it clear from day 1 that it is in the business of making a sustainable ROI for its public and private investors with this project

At 71 cents per passenger-km I should hope they manage to turn a profit; much of that corridor already had an established ridership making it pretty low risk. I expect the government will be subsidizing ~60% of that fee.

 

[p_xavier]

So the Québec government and the city of Montréal announced this morning that Montréal will forego 800M$ of its transit financing for the Québec City streetcar. In return, the 800M$ will be paid back in the next transit financing plan. The amount will go towards the construction to the Lasalle Lachine-Downtown part of the Pink Line which will connect to the East Island new LRT or REM system.

Other recent news :
New CBCT communication system on the blue line
Platform screen doors on all orange line stations
Québec's government's green fund to be converted to an electric transportation fund to finance new transit projects