abovegrade
Active Member
Interesting video recently posted by RM Transit which talks about how infrastructure upgrades on the Milton line could create feasibility for a midtown GO corridor.
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GO Transit Midtown Corridor
- Thread starter DonValleyRainbow
- Start date
sixrings
Senior Member
Haven’t watched it and love the title. Scarborough we deserve a subway and got it. Brampton we deserve a subway and got it. Eglinton west we deserve a subway and got it. And now we have the Milton line with we deserve all day transit so….
This is how we are deciding what gets built. Who ever starts their argument pleading the victim role and ending with “we deserve a…”. Great planning.
drum118
Superstar
The significant difference is who owns the land and how much they want X to fix it so the missing section can be put in place. Give CPKC $3 Billion and they will happen to do it so long as it's not electrified.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
GO is building a parallel and separate corridor so unsure why it couldn't be electrified. Any idea what the payoff to buy the parallel corridor land from CPKC for the new Milton Line GO corridor is? My guess was $2 billion.
In general, I would say that CN and CPKC’s resistance to electrification - even on their own tracks they run mainline freight on - has been grossly overstated in the transit community.
Bojaxs
Active Member
Is there even room to construct parallel running tracks in the midtown corridor? A lot of buildings would have to be torn down.
ARG1
Senior Member
This is important to note I think. I think the way this Milton Line arrangement is supposed to work is the same way as the GO portion of the Kingston Sub in Durham works, where its effectively a separate subdivision that just directly parallels the freight mainline. As such I don't see why it couldn't be electrified (in fact I felt the implication was that it would be electrified).
crs1026
Senior Member
Overstated ? One can't blame the transit industry for concluding that CN and CP are firmly opposed, when that fact has appeared repeatedly in documentation issued by Metrolinx, and considering that both the GO Electrification EA and the GO Expansion IBC were explicitly structured to not encroach on freight lines. That's why for instance planned electrification ended at Bramalea and Burlington.
BTW The electrification EA does indicate where ML intended to seek agreement to string catenary in parallel to main freight lines. Milton isn't on the list. (For that matter, there isn't a draft EA report for anything about the Milton line, as yet).
While I'm at it, I will drop a little nugget that keeps coming up over and over: ML explicitly specified that the GO electrification design will accommodate double stack freight. Yes, that's in print in the 2017 EA.
- Paul
dowlingm
Senior Member
A separated electric Milton-Union line with a fly under, sure. A Midtown Line less so. If it was not to interact with the two mains and the converging MacTier track at West Toronto, maybe they could use the southernmost part of the ROW for one in and out track. Recall that a good chunk of the Midtown alignment is taken up by the north side spur which serves TTC Hillcrest
drum118
Superstar
There are very few spots in Mississauga where there is enough room for a separate parallel corridor ss well up to the Weston Sub without tearing things down at great cost. There are two-three points where CPKC will still have to use that parallel corridor to service their customers even if everything is on the south side.
The RR needs to get their head out of the sand and accept overhead is not an issue for them like they think it is.
Toronto corridor will require a lot of tearing down to have a separate corridor for GO and it must run on the south side to be out of CPKC way 100%.
The question is, what is the distance must be between the two corridors to make CPKC happen as well allowing for overhead system??? Once that is known, draw a line on the map to see what impact it will have on existing structures on one side that will require two options for which side is the best one and another one where both sides are affected.
Using the same ROW space and putting a fence between the two systems neither system requirements for separate corridors. It will if CPKC has access to one of GO lines from time to time to move trains more freely.
mdu
Active Member
Do we really need to go through CP North Toronto? It just dumps people on Line 1 north of Bloor and it parallels Bloor through the city. Couldn't the CP mainline on the east side of the city (Leaside and east) interline with Milton through the Don Branch?
Northern Light
Superstar
The Don Branch, and the 1/2 mile bridge have to be rebuilt and the connection re-instated, as a starting point; but if you're looking to run frequent service, that would be still be a challenge.
The line is single-track, much of it on a bridge or an embankment, in a sensitive natural area, where doubling the corridor width would mean lots of alteration in the valley and lots of tree cutting.
Then, you're going to end up running that corridor though the USRC and Union Station which is already a busy spot and already due to get much more busy with GO Expansion and possibly HFR/HSR.
I'm inclined to think that's not the most practical of choices, particularly with Union Station set to reach capacity again in the medium term.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
I think any real conclusions on the Don Branch have to wait on VIA as well… it’s a temping approach for HFR, albeit with a lot of the same problems as above… otoh, through running Milton trains would probably help more than hurt unions capacity, especially if a fly under is built to Don trains onto the south side of the corridor.