H
Hydrogen
Guest
Rights and freedoms are not playing well in some parts of Quebec right now.
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Charter must be changed, Quebec panel told
LES PERREAUX
Canadian Press
October 24, 2007 at 6:09 PM EDT
TROIS-RIVIERES, Que. — A town councillor in the middle of Quebec's furor over integrating immigrants laid out a stark choice Wednesday for Canadians who believe new arrivals are destroying traditional culture.
Herouxville Coun. André Drouin said the Charter of Rights and Freedoms must be changed to drop protections for religion, or provinces like Quebec should separate and adopt their own rules.
Either way, the issue must be wrestled from the courts and Canada must stop adapting to religious practices of new arrivals, Mr. Drouin said.
“If there is some kind of religious accommodation to be asked or to be given, don't ask us, ask your God,†Mr. Drouin said.
Mr. Drouin and the small town's webmaster, Bernard Thompson, presented their point of view at provincial government hearings into the practice of accommodating cultural minorities.
Herouxville, population 1,300, is the town that adopted a code of conduct for immigrants earlier this year — even though scant few minorities settle in the area halfway between Quebec City and Montreal.
Mr. Drouin presented a memo to the commission that began with a list of names he and townsfolk have been called since they made the declaration last winter.
Morons, fascists, idiots, mentally deficient, intolerant and retarded were just a small sample of the epithets.
Undaunted, Mr. Drouin said accommodation must end.
Whether it's allowing women to wear veils while voting or providing kosher meals in public hospitals, “we demand that the practice of Canadian courts of accommodating religion in Canada and Quebec cease immediately,†Mr. Drouin told the commission.
“The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a tool to destroy our country.â€
While Herouxville has been ostracized in some quarters, it was also clear Wednesday that the town's residents are not alone in thinking the protection of personal and religious rights is a threat to Quebec's francophone, secular culture.
About 100 people in the half-filled hall gave Mr. Drouin and Mr. Thompson, both engineers, a warm ovation at the end of their presentation.
Many other presenters, including academics, feminists and Quebec nationalists, mentioned the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as enabling religion to creep into secular society.
For many, Quebec independence was the catch-all solution.
Others complained of the dismissive way the debate has been portrayed in the big city of Montreal. The debate has raged with particular furor in rural areas.
“There is a profound disdain in Montreal for people who are reflecting on this,†said Sacki Carignan Deschamps, a sociologist and teacher.
“I'm really bothered by the profound condescension of urban people.â€
Others decried the condescension toward immigrants of Herouxville's code, which declares atrocities like stoning, burning with acid, and genital mutilation as contrary to Quebec values.
“It's another way to say, ‘We don't want Muslims,'†said Muslim woman Asmaa Ibnouzahir, a Montrealer.
“For them, all Muslims are related to stoning, genital mutilation. They're saying, ‘We want people to come to Herouxville who look like us, who don't look different, because we don't like differences.'â€
The distinguished academics in charge of the hearing also challenged the Herouxville residents on their declaration.
“We're pretty far from stoning here,†commission head Gerard Bouchard said flatly.
Mr. Drouin replied that global warming will bring a flood of immigrants to Canada, including many from Muslim countries.
“It doesn't matter in what country the stoning is taking place,†Mr. Drouin told Bouchard and co-chair Charles Taylor.
“Stoning takes place, and some of those people will want to come here. It's important to be preventative.â€
Premier Jean Charest called the provincial commission to study the issue of reasonable accommodation after Herouxville made global headlines with the provocative move.
Herouxville's code of conduct also included a declaration of the right to dance and celebrate Christmas.
Mr. Bouchard, a historian and sociologist, and Mr. Taylor, a philosopher, debated the issue with Mr. Drouin and Mr. Thompson for 35 minutes, ignoring the strict 15-minute limit placed on other presenters.
“Isn't it a bit offensive, the point of view you've taken, regarding Muslims, for example?†Mr. Bouchard suggested.
Mr. Drouin answered that none of their documents names Muslims.
But Islam is clearly the main inspiration for the code. It condemns medieval forms of punishment used in some conservative Muslim societies. It also brushes aside the need for accommodating veils and dismisses dietary requirements like prohibitions on pork or certain seafood.
Mr. Drouin said he's received hundreds of e-mails of support since his town made its stand, but he admitted other municipalities and organizations have been slow to publicly back him.
“They're afraid of being called morons and imbeciles,†Mr. Drouin said.
Judging by the list of insults listed in the Herouxville memo, Mr. Bouchard joked that Mr. Drouin appeared to be immunized against that fear.
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Charter must be changed, Quebec panel told
LES PERREAUX
Canadian Press
October 24, 2007 at 6:09 PM EDT
TROIS-RIVIERES, Que. — A town councillor in the middle of Quebec's furor over integrating immigrants laid out a stark choice Wednesday for Canadians who believe new arrivals are destroying traditional culture.
Herouxville Coun. André Drouin said the Charter of Rights and Freedoms must be changed to drop protections for religion, or provinces like Quebec should separate and adopt their own rules.
Either way, the issue must be wrestled from the courts and Canada must stop adapting to religious practices of new arrivals, Mr. Drouin said.
“If there is some kind of religious accommodation to be asked or to be given, don't ask us, ask your God,†Mr. Drouin said.
Mr. Drouin and the small town's webmaster, Bernard Thompson, presented their point of view at provincial government hearings into the practice of accommodating cultural minorities.
Herouxville, population 1,300, is the town that adopted a code of conduct for immigrants earlier this year — even though scant few minorities settle in the area halfway between Quebec City and Montreal.
Mr. Drouin presented a memo to the commission that began with a list of names he and townsfolk have been called since they made the declaration last winter.
Morons, fascists, idiots, mentally deficient, intolerant and retarded were just a small sample of the epithets.
Undaunted, Mr. Drouin said accommodation must end.
Whether it's allowing women to wear veils while voting or providing kosher meals in public hospitals, “we demand that the practice of Canadian courts of accommodating religion in Canada and Quebec cease immediately,†Mr. Drouin told the commission.
“The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a tool to destroy our country.â€
While Herouxville has been ostracized in some quarters, it was also clear Wednesday that the town's residents are not alone in thinking the protection of personal and religious rights is a threat to Quebec's francophone, secular culture.
About 100 people in the half-filled hall gave Mr. Drouin and Mr. Thompson, both engineers, a warm ovation at the end of their presentation.
Many other presenters, including academics, feminists and Quebec nationalists, mentioned the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as enabling religion to creep into secular society.
For many, Quebec independence was the catch-all solution.
Others complained of the dismissive way the debate has been portrayed in the big city of Montreal. The debate has raged with particular furor in rural areas.
“There is a profound disdain in Montreal for people who are reflecting on this,†said Sacki Carignan Deschamps, a sociologist and teacher.
“I'm really bothered by the profound condescension of urban people.â€
Others decried the condescension toward immigrants of Herouxville's code, which declares atrocities like stoning, burning with acid, and genital mutilation as contrary to Quebec values.
“It's another way to say, ‘We don't want Muslims,'†said Muslim woman Asmaa Ibnouzahir, a Montrealer.
“For them, all Muslims are related to stoning, genital mutilation. They're saying, ‘We want people to come to Herouxville who look like us, who don't look different, because we don't like differences.'â€
The distinguished academics in charge of the hearing also challenged the Herouxville residents on their declaration.
“We're pretty far from stoning here,†commission head Gerard Bouchard said flatly.
Mr. Drouin replied that global warming will bring a flood of immigrants to Canada, including many from Muslim countries.
“It doesn't matter in what country the stoning is taking place,†Mr. Drouin told Bouchard and co-chair Charles Taylor.
“Stoning takes place, and some of those people will want to come here. It's important to be preventative.â€
Premier Jean Charest called the provincial commission to study the issue of reasonable accommodation after Herouxville made global headlines with the provocative move.
Herouxville's code of conduct also included a declaration of the right to dance and celebrate Christmas.
Mr. Bouchard, a historian and sociologist, and Mr. Taylor, a philosopher, debated the issue with Mr. Drouin and Mr. Thompson for 35 minutes, ignoring the strict 15-minute limit placed on other presenters.
“Isn't it a bit offensive, the point of view you've taken, regarding Muslims, for example?†Mr. Bouchard suggested.
Mr. Drouin answered that none of their documents names Muslims.
But Islam is clearly the main inspiration for the code. It condemns medieval forms of punishment used in some conservative Muslim societies. It also brushes aside the need for accommodating veils and dismisses dietary requirements like prohibitions on pork or certain seafood.
Mr. Drouin said he's received hundreds of e-mails of support since his town made its stand, but he admitted other municipalities and organizations have been slow to publicly back him.
“They're afraid of being called morons and imbeciles,†Mr. Drouin said.
Judging by the list of insults listed in the Herouxville memo, Mr. Bouchard joked that Mr. Drouin appeared to be immunized against that fear.
