kEiThZ
Superstar
There's a whole bunch of bedroom communities around Ottawa that thought the growth from Covid would be permanent.
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Alto - High Speed Rail (Toronto-Quebec City)
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
There's a whole bunch of bedroom communities around Ottawa that thought the growth from Covid would be permanent.
nfitz
Superstar
Looks like the net Covid growth there was 10 people (0.1% in 5 years.). At that rate it would treble in 5,000 years.
The pre-Covid demographics must have biased for higher than average age.
I was shocked and doubtful over 3 decades ago, while doing transport demand modelling, to see the projected growth for these Eastern Ontario areas, including along the St. Lawrence, was negative. But I guess the experts were right.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Looks like the net Covid growth there was 10 people (0.1% in 5 years.). At that rate it would treble in 5,000 years.
The pre-Covid demographics must have biased for higher than average age.
I was shocked and doubtful over 3 decades ago, while doing transport demand modelling, to see the projected growth for these Eastern Ontario areas, including along the St. Lawrence, was negative. But I guess the experts were right.
Kinda hilarious too that several of these places vote Conservative. The only time they saw growth was during Covid when public servants felt free to move further away. Their preferred party wants fewer public servants and wants them chained to their desk in Ottawa. Not a recipe for exurban growth. And if ever entire government departments are moved out of Ottawa, these places would go through economic depression.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Above digression aside, I do wonder if there's a case for fully suburban station at some place like Vaudreuil. Or if that's too close to Dorval.
I find Dorval is still a bit too far into the city from places like Cornwall. But no idea what the demand would be.
I find Dorval is still a bit too far into the city from places like Cornwall. But no idea what the demand would be.
Mihairokov
Senior Member
Do you think people from Cornwall would drive to Vaudreuil to catch the train into the city? If people are already driving from Cornwall to Vaudreuil I imagine they would simply keep going rather than parking and waiting for the train.
An aside, I know a handful of people who commute to Ottawa from Cornwall and I can't imagine doing that multiple times a week, especially in the winter. Ottawa is like suburban final boss.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Only if they are going to Quebec City.
hw621
Senior Member
Does the new budget have any impact on this?
zang
Senior Member
My wife’s family lives in St-Lazare, and drive to Cornwall to take the train to Toronto.
guavadelic
Active Member
Other than its entry in the section about Nation Building Projects, the budget states that the government will propose legislative action to accelerate the project's construction. Not sure if its just part of Bill C-5 and designating it a project of national-interest or a seperate legislation.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Cornwall to Ottawa is about 105 km which is slightly less than Barrie to Toronto, and the morning and evening traffic on Hwy 400 tells us that lots of people do that every day.
nfitz
Superstar
Yes. In addition to the $11 million cut in VIA Rail's annual funding (phased in by 2028-2029), Alto's budget has been cut by over $125 million for the next 4 years (no cut to year 5). See page 337 of the budget.
micheal_can
Senior Member
There are currently no rails directly connecting Ottawa to Cornwall. And a line there would likely make a great GO route. Definitely not ALTO.
Mihairokov
Senior Member
Interesting. Not Coteau because it's skipped a lot?
Yes, but that's via 400, not backwoods roads for parts of the journey. The 138 in the winter isn't fun and the 417 can get some funky weather, including blowing snow.
Don't think the numbers would warrant it. Ottawa has decided to send its LRTs to its suburbs rather than doing something commuter-specific like GO - Ottawa's O-Train going from Kanata to Orleans is equivalent to an LRT here going the distance from Rouge Park to Pearson.
zang
Senior Member
It's a cost thing. They'd otherwise catch the train from Dorval (more scheduled options), but depending on how far out they book there's generally ~$30/pp difference between those two stops. If my mother- and sister-in-law both take the trip, that's $60; more than double the cost of the gas my brother-in-law will use to drop them off there.
Until (seemingly) April, Coteau only runs to Toronto on Fridays and Sundays, and it can often be double the price of a ticket from Cornwall.
Hands up if you think Via's pricing structure is effed.
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crs1026
Superstar
A stop at Dorval is a no brainer that I would bet is going to happen, thanks to the proximity to the airport. It also has excellent highway connectivity and will be able to service a good amount of the west end. So not a bad choice. Both Montreal and Toronto might benefit from a second "suburban" community further out, so people do not have to "double back" into the city.... but its marketability will only be so great as suburban density is lower. Not a problem provided fewer trains stop there, the tradeoff between longer trip to Dorval versus waiting for the next local train is something travellers can figure out for themselves.
in either case, markets are not everyman propositions, and there will be winners and losers in station proximity.
- Paul
in either case, markets are not everyman propositions, and there will be winners and losers in station proximity.
- Paul