2023 Toronto Mayoral by-election

[adma]

Incumbent mayors losing their reelection attempt is a very rare thing in Toronto. Sewell was beaten by Eggleton. That's the only one I can recall.

Rowlands was beaten by Hall in '14. (And in the outer municipalities, both Holyday & Nunziata defeated incumbents that year.)

 

[lead82]

Unless you force seniors to sell their homes, how is the average senior supposed to pay higher property taxes? This is not an uncommon approach cities take where property tax increases are used to clear out senior homeowners. Meanwhile, with no need for schools, little utilities and much reduced road use, the average homeowning senior is costing the city very little at all, beyond your resentment of course.

Seniors should pay what everyone else is paying. My point is that we shouldn’t avoid increasing property taxes to protect seniors. If a senior can’t pay then they should do what everyone else would - sell and move somewhere more affordable for their income.
We could also do what Vancouver does and that is to defer property tax until the properly sells. The city would put an IOU onto the property. The city needs more money for better services that seniors can rely on like better snow clearing, transit etc…

 

[Admiral Beez]

Seniors should pay what everyone else is paying. My point is that we shouldn’t avoid increasing property taxes to protect seniors. If a senior can’t pay then they should do what everyone else would - sell and move somewhere more affordable for their income.
We could also do what Vancouver does and that is to defer property tax until the properly sells. The city would put an IOU onto the property. The city needs more money for better services that seniors can rely on like better snow clearing, transit etc…

Property taxes should be a percentage of services used, not on value. Instead we should have VAT charged on all primary residence transactions.

 

[lead82]

Property taxes should be a percentage of services used, not on value. Instead we should have VAT charged on all primary residence transactions.

How would you ever have a property tax on services used? Property tax can only ever be on the value of the land and its usage.

I’m all for VAT but that is HST essentially and the city doesn’t have access to such revenue. If Toronto could get 2% of HST and raising it to 15% , where it was in early 2000s then city could use that to cover some of the budget hole.

 

[afransen]

Property taxes should be a percentage of services used, not on value. Instead we should have VAT charged on all primary residence transactions.

Land value tax should be used to fund services. It is demonstrated to incentivize investment and not harm affordability.

 

[Northern Light]

We could also do what Vancouver does and that is to defer property tax until the properly sells. The city would put an IOU onto the property.

Umm, we already do that; as I posted on the previous page:

2023 Toronto Mayoral by-election

What did he do that was so bold other than keep taxes low and come up with transit city, that was a political hot potato in the next election? I'm happy enough to pick a few bones w/David Miller's time in office, but I think you're on the wrong track w/that assertion: Miller actually did...

urbantoronto.ca

Property taxes should be a percentage of services used, not on value. Instead we should have VAT charged on all primary residence transactions.

How would you ever have a property tax on services used? Property tax can only ever be on the value of the land and its usage.

I’m all for VAT but that is HST essentially and the city doesn’t have access to such revenue. If Toronto could get 2% of HST and raising it to 15% , where it was in early 2000s then city could use that to cover some of the budget hole.

So, there are a couple of things to unpack here.

Toronto already de-coupled garbage and water from the property tax bill.

Water is billed based on usage, and garbage on bin size.

There are cities in North America using a different variation of property tax from MVA, called UVA or Unit Value Assessment.

Typically, the latter considers specific features of a property likely to impact cost to the municipality and factors those into the property tax calculation.

Example, road frontage in linear feet/metres might be used as proxy for your fair share of sidewalk/road costs. Number of toilets and presence of a swimming pool for sewer/water
Number of bedrooms for impact on schools, number of parking spots (roads/traffic), amount of hard surface area (sewer) etc. etc.

Each jurisdiction can pick what they choose to penalize (And by default reward)

I favour some variation of this, blended with market value; because it reflects what you are likely externalizing as costs, promotes highest/best use, and tends to naturally tax wealth as well.

At the same time, I don't want to ignore market value in the calculation.

 

[Rufus8]

At this point it is absolutely Chow’s race to lose. I’m very certain that she’s being coached to stay on message and avoid landmines.

Chow’s election pitch — the overarching message of inclusiveness, combined with the careful grandmotherly approach — are working, in the wake of two aberrations (Rob Ford’s belligerent “screw ‘em, then Tory’s “we really are dullards after all”).

Chow should call on a large cross section of individuals to lead the city if she wins.

That's what I think is so unsettling about Chow, clearly she is a puppet the question is who's pulling the strings? The crack she made about being criticized for not speaking English well was designed to appeal to immigrants. I'm a St Mikes baby and would never mock someone for speaking English with an accent. The stuff about housing makes me want to scream - check out TCHC's repair backlog and eviction expenses and then tell me building more substandard housing for the poor is a solution. No one has mentioned Swansea Mews and that particular housing expense. I'm glad to see landlords taking the province to court about the backlog, it's is another forgotten reality that most people struggle to find a decent place to rent and then to keep it.

 

[zang]

That's what I think is so unsettling about Chow, clearly she is a puppet the question is who's pulling the strings?

"Clearly she's a puppet"?

I think you're seeing things.

The crack she made about being criticized for not speaking English well was designed to appeal to immigrants. I'm a St Mikes baby and would never mock someone for speaking English with an accent.

Good for you. Plenty of native-born Canadians I know have been told to "go back to your own country" for speaking anything but English in a public area, let alone those with actual accents.

And Olivia was literally criticized in the press for her accent during her last run for mayor.

"Olivia and English. Anyone who’s spoken personally with Chow, which huge numbers of Torontonians have, has never wondered about her facility in English. Yet in the campaign she’s often sounded uneasy with it. It may look to some voters, many of whom struggle with English, as if she doesn’t care enough about communicating with them to get her nouns and verbs to agree. I’m not saying that’s so, I know it’s not. But we’re talking about impressions. She has numerous advisers; could none of them have dealt with this?"

Rick Salutin: Olivia and Andrea, Talk show Tory, DoFo and R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Impressions from the municipal election.

www.thestar.com

The stuff about housing makes me want to scream - check out TCHC's repair backlog and eviction expenses and then tell me building more substandard housing for the poor is a solution.

I'm not sure anyone has said "build substandard housing for the poor".

The problem is the lack of money for TCHC.

A lot of TCHC plans these days are mixed-income which help make them a little more self-sustaining, but the city needs to spend more money on maintening TCHC properties. Some, like Swansea Mews are nearly at—or at—the point of no return. Swansea Mews was built what? 50+ years ago? Any decently built construction without the funding to maintain it will start to crumble in a half-century.

 

[Admiral Beez]

"Olivia and English. Anyone who’s spoken personally with Chow, which huge numbers of Torontonians have, has never wondered about her facility in English. Yet in the campaign she’s often sounded uneasy with it. It may look to some voters, many of whom struggle with English, as if she doesn’t care enough about communicating with them to get her nouns and verbs to agree. I’m not saying that’s so, I know it’s not. But we’re talking about impressions. She has numerous advisers; could none of them have dealt with this?"

I don't expect someone who emigrated from a non-English speaking country, albeit British Hong Kong in this case, to be perfectly articulate in English. Then again I'm voting for Chow mostly to annoy Doug and to cause a little chaos.

 

[Northern Light]

@Rufus8 and @zang

Just on the subject of Swansea; its important to note that the problem with that project was not maintenance (doubtless there were issues); but rather a serious construction defect that engineers could find no sensible or cost-effective way to correct.

That defect was there from day one, was never detected until someone's ceiling fell on them. And engineers were called in to assess what happened.

TCHC is under-funded, although, its SOGR funds at the moment are probably the best they've been in 3 decades due to a major deal reached a few years ago. A deal that will soon come up for renewal.

What TCHC is missing currently is any funding for Community-level revitalizations ( such as Regent Park, Alexandra Park and Lawrence Heights) which are needed on at least a 1/2 dozen major TCHC properties ( I would argue for 2-3x more). Development partners will be able to assist in some cases (private sector intensification); but in most cases that will be insufficient to deal with both rebuild and new infrastructure costs).

There is also no money for 'new builds'.

I should add, I believe the Vienna model of building public housing could make new builds viable, with CMHC support, but that's a whole other conversation.

 

[smably]

That's what I think is so unsettling about Chow, clearly she is a puppet the question is who's pulling the strings?

Care to unpack this dogwhistle a bit for us? Don't be shy, tell us what you really think.

 

[zang]

@Rufus8 and @zang

Just on the subject of Swansea; its important to note that the problem with that project was not maintenance (doubtless there were issues); but rather a serious construction defect that engineers could find no sensible or cost-effective way to correct.

That defect was there from day one, was never detected until someone's ceiling fell on them. And engineers were called in to assess what happened.

And to add, catastrophic oversights like this can happen to any construction; not just those built for "poor" people. See: 432 Park Avenue or Millennium Tower.

 

[Towered]

I should add, I believe the Vienna model of building public housing could make new builds viable, with CMHC support, but that's a whole other conversation.

I could be wrong, but I believe I read that the Vienna model is also based on rent geared to income, capped at a max of 30%. Imagine we did that here...

One can dream, I suppose, but I don't see any politicians advocating this.

 

[Northern Light]

I could be wrong, but I believe I read that the Vienna model is also based on rent geared to income, capped at a max of 30%. Imagine we did that here...

One can dream, I suppose, but I don't see any politicians advocating this.

"Vienna’s city government owns and manages 220,000 housing units, which represent about 25 percent of the city’s housing stock.1 These city-owned housing units, called social housing, are meant primarily for lower-income residents. The city also indirectly controls 200,000 units that are built and owned by limited-profit private developers but developed through a city-regulated process. Vienna adopted the latter approach in the 1980s, when it decided to collaborate with the private sector to build affordable housing rather than developing and owning more public housing. The city buys land deemed suitable for residential development and retains control over the type and nature of development. The city then solicits proposals from various private developers, which will build and retain ownership of the housing units. A jury evaluates these proposals based on four criteria: architectural quality, environmental performance, social sustainability, and economic parameters such as proposed rent levels and costs.2 After the jury selects a developer, the city sells the land to the developer at an affordable price. In addition, the city gives the developer a loan with favorable terms such as low interest rates and extended repayment periods.


Private developers who collaborate with the city government to build affordable housing must allow the city to rent half of the new apartments to lower-income residents; the developer generally leases the remaining units to moderate-income residents. In some projects, future tenants participate in the planning, design, and construction process and give input on what kind of facilities they would like to have in the building.

Rents are regulated by the city government so that none of the residents pay any more than 20 to 25 percent of their household income for housing, compared to the corresponding 30 percent benchmark in the U.S. A unique feature of Vienna’s social housing program, Lindstrom noted, is that the city’s income restrictions for subsidized units only apply when families first move in. Residents are never required to move out, even if household income levels increase in the following years. This arrangement results in a substantial number of moderate-income residents living in subsidized housing, and this mixing together of residents with different income levels helps with social integration. Since the city has a large stock of affordable housing, these middle-income residents typically do not crowd out lower-income residents.3 Because the city continues to add new units that are subsidized, about 5,000 annually, and available to lower income residents, housing developments do not devolve into middle-class enclaves nor do they become stigmatized concentrations of poverty."

Taken from: https://www.huduser.gov/portal/pdredge/pdr_edge_featd_article_011314.html

 

[Bayer]

There was an article (paywalled) about rental housing in Vienna in the New York Times a few days ago. Interesting read.