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The Tenor (10 Dundas St E, Ent Prop Trust, 10s, Baldwin & Franklin)

  • Thread starter billy corgan19982
  • Start date
Um, who's this Are Be fellow? Wouldn't; want to disagree agree with him, as he seems to be right on about a lot of things- see Transit City, for example.

Um the Distillery District is OK. But a Firkin Pub or some other chain type thing woudl in in PERFECTLY- special;ray - as would one of those horrific Starbucks with their crap, overpriced, acidic coffee! And, there are some money issues there- which could be solved if chains were allowed in.

Remember - forcing an arts community into existence = bullshit.

OK - back on topic - Toronto Life Square= crap building with good anchor tenant (proabley due to favourable leases - not my problem). Creepiness Largely related by grand scale municipal mismanagement of the project (at taxpayer expense.)
IT COULD BE A LOT WORSE- we could pass a law forbidding advertising, We could pass a law that- for environmental reasons- we don't; want any ads lit up. HEY! Let's think like city hall! LET'S BAN - TO SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT- ANYTHING BUT LOW ENREGEY ADVERATING AT TLS!!! It's such a shitty idea- it's sure to fly and get grand scale support!!!

Interesting, for someone who profess not know who AreBe is, and supposedly being a newbie, you certainly knows a lot about his views on this and other matters.

I have a feeling that you'll share the same future as he does on this forum (and others, like SSC). Mark my words.

AoD
 
This Distillary District foray is hilarious.

Um, who's this Are Be fellow? Wouldn't want to disagree agree with him, as he seems to be right on about a lot of things- see Transit City, for example.

Um the Distillery District is OK. But a Firkin Pub or some other chain type thing would fit in in PERFECTLY- - as would one of those horrific Starbucks with their crap, overpriced, acidic coffee! And, there are some money issues there- which could be solved if chains were allowed in.

Remember - forcing an arts community into existence = bullshit.

OK - back on topic - Toronto Life Square= crap building with good anchor tenant (probably due to favourable leases - not my problem). Crappiness Largely related by grand scale municipal mismanagement of the project (at taxpayer expense.)
IT COULD BE A LOT WORSE- we could pass a law forbidding advertising, We could pass a law that- for environmental reasons- we don't; want any ads lit up. HEY! Let's think like city hall! LET'S BAN - TO SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT- ANYTHING BUT LOW ENREGEY ADVERATING AT TLS!!! It's such a shitty idea- it's sure to fly and get grand scale support!!!

Your a comedian right? This is too good!!
 
This Distillery District foray is hilarious.



Your a comedian right? This is too good!!

Have you heard about the money issues at the Distillery District? All sorts of ill will--- hopefully the condos will generate cash to solve the issues between the various parties... has there been a turnover of business there?

Anyways- the important bit is re TLS.
What do you guys think about banning ads for environmental reasons? Pretty stupid. Pretty probable.
 
Have you heard about the money issues at the Distillery District? All sorts of ill will--- hopefully the condos will generate cash to solve the issues between the various parties... has there been a turnover of business there?

Anyways- the important bit is re TLS.
What do you guys think about banning ads for environmental reasons? Pretty stupid. Pretty probable.

I wasn't aware of that. But thanks for advising.

As for banning Advertising in DSQ, pretty stupid idea.
 
Actually what drags down the DD is the fact it feels artificial and phoney. It reminds me of the days as a youngster visiting the "city" aka Stratford Ontario where everyyear more "phonies" moved in and took over the shops. Locals don't shop@downtown Stratford; locals don't shop@DD? I don't! I like staring at old rundown abandoned buildings; not Waspy granny types....


Hey actually that's an idea for the future DD: Tim Horton's so I don't have to deal with the phonies@Balzacs!

Wow! Someone's been reading Catcher in the Rye lately. . .;)

I wouldn't want to live there, but I'm actually not that bothered by the artificiality of the area. Just as I wouldn't mind visiting downtown Stratford or Niagara-on-the-Lake, the DD is fine in small doses. The fact that Soulpepper is there seems fitting. I like to think of it as a cheap day trip without the drive - just like the Toronto Islands.
 
Past Success

Distillery District path to success paved in cobblestones
By Jeff Vanderby



The buildings that make up the Goodherham & Worts Distillery may be some of the oldest in Toronto, but in many ways the Distillery District has only recently arrived on the scene.

And what a celebrated arrival.

The latest laurels in its crown are a Toronto Heritage Award of Excellence, and the announcement that First Night Toronto will be relocating its popular, family-friendly end of year festival to the Distillery District.

Accomplishments such as these have become almost commonplace since the Distillery's official opening in May 2003. Indeed, the public has embraced its cobblestone charm, turning up in droves to visit its galleries, cafés, and boutiques, to attend concerts, and even to book wedding receptions (“The most romantic setting in Toronto,†nonchalantly claims the Distillery's website).

“I don't think it could have gone any better in terms of public acceptance than it has," said John Berman, one of the four partners at Cityscape Development Corp., the firm who transformed the sprawling Victorian Industrial complex into a “centre for arts, culture, and entertainment.â€

The District has certainly come a long way in a short time. And no small measure of the Distillery's success lies in its ability to capitalize on its own history, both as an icon of the old liquor trade and as its continuing role as Hollywood film set. The Distillery website urges people to mingle on “Distillery Lane where Al Capone once purchased his illegal contraband or on Trinity Street where Richard Gere and Renée Zellweger filmed the Oscar-Award winning Chicago.â€

Nostalgia and glamour are exceptionally effective marketing tools and coupled with a city that lacks other such multi-use heritage destinations, the Distillery seems destined for success.

The path to success is seldom a smooth one, however, and the Distillery District has had a few bumps along the way. There was an unpleasant legal dispute between Cityscape and its financial backer, William Wiener. There was hushed talk of financial disarray and tenant complaints. And there have been criticisms in the local media that the Distillery has become a Disneyfied tourist trap.

But in a city whose past is dead to it in so many ways, it's hard to dislike the Distillery. Walking through its alleyways and courtyards is like taking a trip through time, and with all the rapid-fire development that has erased this city's past, it's nice to have a living and vital reminder of Toronto's history.

Evidently this is a sentiment that carries. The Distillery is almost fully leased and, according to Berman, it is entering its final stage. This means no major changes or developments are in the works. This is a good thing; the Distillery will benefit even more from hands-off, organic growth.


What really does need a hands-on approach, however, is the provincially owned industrial wasteland that surrounds the Distillery. “The province and the federal government and the city have to get their act together and get the whole area developed,†said Berman. “It's been far too long with such an important piece of property and such an important area for the city. They have to do something.â€

The Distillery remains an elegant oasis in a poorly developed part of town, and it may not truly reach its full potential until the area around it is improved. Unfortunately, at the moment, these improvements do not seem to be on the horizon. And that's too bad, because the Distillery deserves better. As Berman said: “There's no place like this. This really was a once in a lifetime opportunity.â€

It would be a shame if the opportunity were wasted.
 
I joined the forum in 2004, just after Are Be's unceremonious exit. People were still making jokes at his expense, but I never got to see what they were referring to. Is this what he was like? If so, a bit of a letdown.
 
Down and out in the Distillery District
After three years of lacklustre sales, some tenants are ditching the historic east-side complex
PAUL WALDIE

June 24, 2006

Meredith Heron was convinced that the Distillery District would be another Yorkville when she opened her store at the historic site in early 2004.

But after two years of paltry sales and squabbles with the property's owners, Ms. Heron pulled out and moved into a building at Queen Street and Gladstone Avenue.

"More people walk by here in an hour than would go by that part of town in a week," said Ms. Heron, an interior designer who runs Red Heron Essentials.

Since moving in there a few months ago, she has been joined by six other former Distillery tenants and 13 more have contacted her to ask about relocating.

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"We call it the 'ex-stillery,' " joked Annie Smith, who runs Mona's Dog Boutique and moved into the building in May.

Asked to describe her three years at the Distillery, Ms. Smith replied: "It's been a struggle from day one, an absolute miserable struggle. It's just been awful."

When it opened in May of 2003, the Distillery District was hailed as an innovative mix of boutiques, galleries and restaurants spread among 44 Victorian-era buildings on a 13-acre site. But three years later, tenants are complaining that the district, which is slated to expand its retail space significantly in the next few years, is still struggling to attract patrons.

The original owners, Cityscape Property Management Corp. and developer Bill Wiener, bought the property for $11-million and had big plans for it, including major renovations, retail opportunities and condominiums.

But the project soon ran into financial pressure and the partners became embroiled in a legal fight over money, control and personalities. The feud was resolved in October, 2004, when Mr. Wiener sold his interest to Cityscape and its new partner, Dundee Realty Management Corp.

Many tenants say the arrival of Dundee has brought badly needed stability and professional management to the Distillery. They credit Dundee for making numerous improvements to the site, including better lighting, new sidewalks and landscaping. And they say the district has broadened its appeal by adding events such as the Distillery Arts Walk and venues such as the George Brown Theatre School and Soulpepper Theatre Company.

As for those who left: "Some people are just whingers and complainers," said Derek Jessop, who runs the Gibsone Jessop Gallery. "There are always difficulties when you are doing anything that's new and innovative. It's not like moving in and renting a place at the Eaton Centre, for heaven's sake. What did they expect?"

But other tenants say the Distillery isn't living up to its potential. In their letter to the property owners, a group of 28 retailers said pedestrian traffic has been so low this spring that on some weekdays as few as five people visited their stores. "It has become a fact of life for most retail tenants here at the Distillery District that on-site traffic has been steadily declining to the point that many of us are seriously questioning the viability of the Distillery as a retail site," said the letter, which did not include the names of the retailers but was signed "anonymous" 28 times.

It added that the store owners are in such rough financial shape they may not be able to stay in business beyond this summer. The group said the district has unlimited promise, but it wants the property owners to hire a "retail development consultant" to develop a plan for the site.

Some tenants also privately complain about significant increases in lease rates -- rents are comparable to others areas of the city, they say, but are already too high given the low customer traffic.

Jason Lester, an executive at Dundee who oversees the Distillery, said he understands the retailers' concerns, but he wonders why they would want to make their gripes public. "All it's going to do is poison their water," he said. "If it doesn't work for a few, that shouldn't jade it for everybody else."

Some tenants saw the letter as sour grapes from those who can't make it. "If you want traffic, go to Harbourfront and sell hot dogs," said one, who asked not to be identified.

"What's developing here is something that's a higher level than someone who needs the traffic."

Another group of tenants issued a statement to The Globe and Mail rejecting the criticisms by the retailers and backing the owners.

"We are thrilled with the improvements made at the Distillery over the last number of years and we all plan to be tenants here long into the future," said the statement, signed by 20 tenants.

"Please note that there is no community in the city where every tenant is either happy or successful."

Mr. Lester said the Distillery has come a long way in recent months, "and those who haven't been able to make it work have moved on."

He said sales are up at many businesses and several are expanding, even tripling in size.

"If these tenants did not have the confidence in where things are going at the Distillery, they would not have sunk as much money as they have," he said.

Mr. Lester acknowledged that some lease rates are increasing, but he said the ownership group is sensitive to the needs of the tenants. "Some of the [original] leases were on extremely favourable terms because they just wanted to fill the space," he said. "Today, we are bringing them up to market."

The Distillery is still evolving and many of the original plans are under way, including construction of a 32-storey condominium building. There are plans to add more condos, possibly a hotel and a four-storey retail-business complex called the Ribbon Building.

Within a few years, the amount of retail space at the Distillery is expected to almost triple, from its current level of 60,000 square feet. Mr. Lester said Dundee is so convinced that the east side of the downtown core is on the verge of major growth that the company has been snapping up property in the area.

"We really believe strongly in the downtown east side right now," he said.

Syd Beder, who owns Lileo clothing store, said he loves the Distillery and couldn't imagine being anywhere else. But he acknowledged that it hasn't been easy financially. "Since we've opened, it has been a challenge. We would like to grow, and it's kind of frustrating. But there are obstacles in a new area."

Mr. Beder cited parking as the biggest concern, noting that condo construction has drastically reduced available parking for customers.

"In two years, [the Distillery] will be magnificent," he said, referring to the various development plans. "But some of us down here are going to have a real tough go over the next two years unless they make some concentrated effort to fix the parking problem and to make people aware that it's a great place to visit."
 
HEY - you guys are going to love this idea- I can tell:
FORK OVER MANAGEMENT OF THE DISTILLERY DISTRICT TO THE SAME COMPANY RESPONSIBLE FOR TLS!
(OK, I'm a comedian)
 
I joined the forum in 2004, just after Are Be's unceremonious exit. People were still making jokes at his expense, but I never got to see what they were referring to. Is this what he was like? If so, a bit of a letdown.
Was it that long ago? Time flies. Trust me, it gets better.

Anyway, I hope TLS gets better with age. But even if it gets better ads in time, that won't change the fact that the architecture stinks.
 
They're both contrived, but I'll take DD over TLS anyday. At least there is some historical and aesthetic merit to the old distillery buildings regardless of tenants- whether chucky cheese or Dolce & gabbana the buildings will be attractive. Metropolis is doomed to ugliness.
 
Yes, but Dundas Square is certainly more economically viable. Looks like the tenants at the DD were struggling for a bit. Might get better with more condos and better planning, but who knows.
 

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