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GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

robmausser said:
Lets stop trying to reinvent the wheel in Toronto when we are decades behind in transit.
Click to expand...

Aww. I think we should do our commuter rail using linear induction motors and maglev like the Birmingham airport people mover used to be.
 
dunkalunk said:
Didn't the complicated nature of the pilings below the rail corridor through Union pretty much make relocating of tracks in the shed an impossibility? Someone is going to have to elaborate here, since I'm not exactly sure where this came from.
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Probably. I think it would be difficult to move the tracks around, but simply closing them and turning them to platforms may be feasible. It even seems ambiguous now if the renovation took into account the requirements for electrification ;_;

dunkalunk said:
I'd actually envisioned 4 tiers:
Metro-Rail: Suburban Subway-Type Spacing between 1-3km with frequencies as low as 5 minutes. Combination of Metro and Subway (I think what John Tory's SmartTrack is supposed to be getting at) and the type of spacing I was going for in my earlier post (didn't quite have the words for it yet).
Regional: All-Stop, bi-directional GO DMU/EMU service with stops every 3-10km running every 15 minutes to half hour.
Express: Similar to VIA's current intercity service with a few added stops to provide better GO connections (Bramalea, Pickering, James North etc.)
Limited: High Speed Rail service.
Click to expand...

I personally think this would be a lot of overlap as well. The only corridor likely to see HSR service (and I still stand by my original guess that it won't) is the KW-London line, so let's use that as a model for service layering.

You would run a Metro-Rail service until Brampton or Bramalea as you describe. Beyond that, you could have a 'regional' or 'express' service which would run KW->Guelph->Georgetown->Mt.Pleasat->Brampton (interchange w/MetroLocal)-->Union. If HSR ever came about, it could run London->KW (interchange w/regional trains)->Brampton (interchange/Metrolocal)->Union, as could an upgraded VIA/conventional speed rail.

In practice, there seems like a lot of overlap between what a 'regional' or 'express' service would serve.

Lakeshore East could see a similar service pattern. MetroLocal up till Ajax or Whitby. A 'Regional' service which would run Bowmanville->Courtice->Oshawa-> Pickering/Ajax/Whitby (interchange w/MetroLocal)->Union. An 'intercity' service, either VIA or HSR, could serve places like Belleville, Kingston, Ottawa and Montreal

In this case there could be some tension between HSR and more 'local' via services. A real HSR wouldn't stop at much other than Ottawa or Montreal, but without those anchor cities service to towns like Trenton or Belleville probably wouldn't make sense.

dunkalunk said:
I know throwing all of your trains in one corridor may not be the most ideal, however, I really don't think a North Toronto station is possible. Even if it were possible, diverting trains to the North Toronto Sub would not connect well with the existing/planned Subway network. At least by having Union it would be possible to have metro-rail stops on the fringes of downtown to intersect with the DRL and Streetcar/LRT network, as well as provide frequent service on the same corridor where lines overlap.
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My point with the North Toronto station was more that VIA is the low hanging fruit in terms of Union's capacity. USRC Capacity study assumed that it would take over half an hour for VIA trains to disembark and board! That's a lot of track capacity eaten up by a single train. The busy parts of the GO network shouldn't have to resort to super expensive tunnels or satellite terminals while you have VIA trains just sitting in the station. The first services to be questioned at Union should be the ones serving low density routes like Toronto-Sarnia.
 
With the RER style of service coming soon to a station near you, where could we add additional stations within Toronto?

Lakeshore East

-Danforth & Warden

-Better integration (if possible) between Main Subway Station and Danforth GO Station

-Area between Danforth GO Station and Union Station should be cover by a DRL line

Union Station Lakeshore plateform

The RER station at Chatelet Les Halles in Paris is a good model if Metrolinx proceeds with their tunnel project

chatelet_les_halles_line_sign.jpg


Chatelet-Les-Halles_CRW_1560.jpg



Lakeshore West

-Roncesvalles & Queensway


Kitchener

-Liberty Village (Strachan & King) *Close to the Garrison Point project

-Parkdale (Dufferin & Queen)

-Stockyard District (St.Clair & Weston)

-Mount Dennis Crosstown (Eglinton & Weston)


Milton

-Liberty Village (Strachan & King) *Close to the Garrison Point project

-Parkdale (Dufferin & Queen)

-St.Clair & Jane


Barrie

-Caledonia Crosstown Station

-Downsview Park Station

-Close York University


Richmond Hill

-Close Oriole Station and move it to Leslie subway station on the Sheppard line

-Close Old Cummer and open Finch & Leslie


Stouffville

No new stations


*Feel free to add and remove stations or criticize
 
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rbt said:
Aww. I think we should do our commuter rail using linear induction motors and maglev like the Birmingham airport people mover used to be.
Click to expand...

You'd think it would be easiest to upgrade the current system, but what if it wasn't?

I mean, what if GO/ML insists on all sorts of expensive features? A central tunnel built for 12-car bilevels. New stations built everywhere for 12 car bilevels. Electrification to god-knows-where. Expensive tunneling through large parts of the network. Having to get FRA compliant EMUs, still manned with 3 person crews. Some kind of expensive Union redesign to handle electrification or greater passenger loads. Underground bus bays. Complex interchange stations with the TTC. God knows what kind of signalling improvements. Large numbers of grade separations.

It's not impossible to imagine a new build automated metro along Brampton-Union-Markham and Oakville-Union-Ajax being comparable, if not cheaper, in price. That would easily poach the most rider dense segment of the network.

Obviously I'm not a fan of reinventing the wheel and a kind of RER-ification of the existing system ought to be the best solution. Unlike most European cities which put these kinds of systems in, though, GO's starting from a lower base and in a less permissive regulatory and economic environment.
 
Solid Snake said:
With the RER style of service coming soon to a station near you, where could we add additional stations within Toronto?

Lakeshore East

-Danforth & Warden

-Better integration (if possible) between Main Subway Station and Danforth GO Station

-Area between Danforth GO Station and Union Station should be cover by a DRL line

Union Station Lakeshore plateform

The RER station at Chatelet Les Halles in Paris is a good model if Metrolinx proceeds with their tunnel project

chatelet_les_halles_line_sign.jpg


Chatelet-Les-Halles_CRW_1560.jpg



Lakeshore West

-Roncesvalles & Queensway


Kitchener

-Liberty Village (Strachan & King) *Close to the Garrison Point project

-Parkdale (Dufferin & Queen)

-Stockyard District (St.Clair & Weston)

-Mount Dennis Crosstown (Eglinton & Weston)


Milton

-Liberty Village (Strachan & King) *Close to the Garrison Point project

-Parkdale (Dufferin & Queen)

-St.Clair & Jane


Barrie

-Caledonia Crosstown Station

-Downsview Park Station

-Close York University


Richmond Hill

-Close Oriole Station and move it to Leslie subway station on the Sheppard line

-Close Old Cummer and open Finch & Leslie


Stouffville

No new stations


*Feel free to add and remove stations or criticize
Click to expand...

Depends on your station spacing preferences. On the Lakeshore W line I had in fill stations around Bathurst, Queen W/King W/Roncy, and at Kipling.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Depends on your station spacing preferences. On the Lakeshore W line I had in fill stations around Bathurst, Queen W/King W/Roncy, and at Kipling.
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For Lakeshore West, with or without RER spacing, I would move Mimico station to the Humber Loop.

Mimico
- virtually no parking (173 spaces)
- no bus connection worth mentioning
- No Kiss and Ride
- No room for growth
- very low usage (other than GO Transit personnel)

Humber Loop
- large local population and growing with the Mr Christie plant closure
- willingness of local population to pay extra fares for convenience (currently paying for the express bus)
- would reduce the usage of Queen/King streetcars
- room to create a intermodal hub (north of the tracks)
- if there was fare integration, residents use the streetcar to get to the GO station. Without, the condo's would probably be providing shuttle services.
- room for a large mixed-use development near the Humber Loop (Sobey's Plaza & Ontario Food Terminal). Keep the Food Terminal but intensify the land usage (i.e. truck access underground with retail/residential above the Food Terminal)
 
salsa said:
Here's what I came up with: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zaK28KZzproA.kO19YMSpPS5I&hl=en

Note: your proposed station at Strachan is probably not possible anymore since the tracks have been moved to an underpass there. I would move it to King.
Click to expand...

Couple of questions about the KW line you show ....

1) is there no where between Bloor and Union for a station.....somewhere near LV is (IMO) an essential place for a station.
2) What purpose does the woodbine race track station serve? A long time ago one was proposed there as a transfer station to the airport but with the UPe ending up on its own right of way right into the airport that is not the case. The south side of the race track (where this station would need to be) would not provide any benefit that I can see.
 
TOareaFan said:
Couple of questions about the KW line you show ....

1) is there no where between Bloor and Union for a station.....somewhere near LV is (IMO) an essential place for a station.
2) What purpose does the woodbine race track station serve? A long time ago one was proposed there as a transfer station to the airport but with the UPe ending up on its own right of way right into the airport that is not the case. The south side of the race track (where this station would need to be) would not provide any benefit that I can see.
Click to expand...

Nevermind on #1.....the zoom I had hid the LV station behind the Exhibition station.
 
TOareaFan said:
Couple of questions about the KW line you show ....

1) is there no where between Bloor and Union for a station.....somewhere near LV is (IMO) an essential place for a station.
2) What purpose does the woodbine race track station serve? A long time ago one was proposed there as a transfer station to the airport but with the UPe ending up on its own right of way right into the airport that is not the case. The south side of the race track (where this station would need to be) would not provide any benefit that I can see.
Click to expand...

1) Any location would be very challenging, especially south of King. But I agree that it's essential.
2) A station there is more of a long term possibility, assuming development eventually happens in the area. My map is a compilation of all the GO station that were ever proposed, plus a few of my own.
 
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salsa said:
1) Any location would be very challenging, especially south of King. But I agree that it's essential.
2) A station there is more of a long term possibility, assuming development eventually happens in the area. My map is a compilation of all the GO station that were ever proposed, plus a few of my own.
Click to expand...

Given where the GO line runs south of Woodbine (near the training track) I can't seen any development there at all....and I don't think there is much access. Like I said, it may have made some sense as a transfer point between GO and an airport shuttle line (although I always preferred Malton for that option) but once that idea went away in favour of a completely separate service running directly into the airport, I don't see much use for a station at Woodbine.

Here is where the tracks pass woodbine.

GO track at Woodbine.JPG
 

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salsa said:
Here's what I came up with: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zaK28KZzproA.kO19YMSpPS5I&hl=en

Note: your proposed station at Strachan is probably not possible anymore since the tracks have been moved to an underpass there. I would move it to King.
Click to expand...

Great map!

I would add a few more stops:

1. Humbertown (at Royal York) on the Milton line.
2. A Sherway/West Mall/Trillium Health Centre stop also on the Milton Line
3. A Bloor St E stop on the Richmond Hill line (with a solution to move people quickly from/to the Danforth subway line...maybe a high speed Termiinal 1 type walkway)
4. A Brickworks weekend only stop

Also looking at the map I can't help but notice the Barrie/Milton/Seaton opportunity to interlink with the subway. If they timed the departures correctly, you could catch any of these trains (say one leaving every 5 minutes) to get to the Bloor West subway line. This would require significant work on the Bloor West and Landsdowne subway stations but worth it in the long term.
 
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