Toronto Pearson International Airport

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yes that is a major issue. The restaurants on the outer perimeter take up space that should be used to provide additional seating. People are better now at just taking a seat, where 10-15 yrs ago there was some confusion with weather the seating areas were reserved for restaurant patrons.

I'm toying with the idea of opening up the upper level (currently used for lounges and arriving passenger movement to customs) and moving some of the retail up there. For example a food court style area, and giving back space to seating.

I don't think you could remove the lounges that easily given there is nowhere else for them. If anything they should expand retail in the "central processing" area after security. I am not sure if they can do it by physically expanding the terminal outward (HKIA did that) and not seriously affect the gates though. That, and building a dedicated US transborder pier and reallocate spaces in the existing terminal.

AoD

 

[ear2ear]

I don't think you could remove the lounges that easily given there is nowhere else for them. If anything they should expand retail in the "central processing" area after security. I am not sure if they can do it by physically expanding the terminal outward (HKIA did that) and not seriously affect the gates though. That, and building a dedicated US transborder pier and reallocate spaces in the existing terminal.

AoD

If we're trying to reconfigure T1 for improved flow, the massive block of luxury goods for sale right in the middle seems like it could be put to better use.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I don't think you could remove the lounges that easily given there is nowhere else for them. If anything they should expand retail in the "central processing" area after security. I am not sure if they can do it by physically expanding the terminal outward (HKIA did that) and not seriously affect the gates though. That, and building a dedicated US transborder pier and reallocate spaces in the existing terminal.

AoD

I'm not suggesting that the lounges be moved or removed. I believe there is still a significant amount of space up there that can accommodate the 4-odd restaurants (Fetta, Heirloom, Vinifera, and Marathi) that are occupying what should be gate seating areas. Plus a few other fast food options.

 

[jje1000]

I honestly wonder that with the future Pier H, if Terminal 1 should be retrofitted with some sort of Peoplemover system? With all of the interior rearrangements it has become a trek to get from one part of the airport to another, especially when one is connecting between flights.

Or at least something more formalized than golf carts lol

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

I honestly wonder that with the future Pier H, if Terminal 1 should be retrofitted with some sort of Peoplemover system? With all of the interior rearrangements it has become a trek to get from one part of the airport to another, especially when one is connecting between flights.

Or at least something more formalized than golf carts lol

There needs to be FIVE different level connections.

• Domestic Arrivals
• Domestic Departures
• Domestic airplane connections
• US Departures
• Customs Arrivals

 

[treplow]

A friend was through Pearson recently and remarked about how crowded it is. We really are putting a ton of pax pressure on the terminals.

Gotta get started on the expanded T1 asap, but it's still some time off iirc

I also really wish GTAA would think bigger with things like retail, services etc. Vancouver does this stuff way better (much less Singapore) and we should at the very least be roughly on part with our friends on the West Coast.

I'd also love a better link between T1 and T3 - say if you don't want to use the Ski Lift

The largest airport in the country for passenger volume (and one of the biggest in North America) having only two terminals is kind of ridiculous to begin with.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The largest airport in the country for passenger volume (and one of the biggest in North America) having only two terminals is kind of ridiculous to begin with.

The issue isn't the number of terminals - but the number of piers and the allocation of space within.

AoD

 

[allabootmatt]

Exactly. If anything, the global trend is away from discrete terminals toward mega-buildings, linked internally by people-movers if necessary. See Doha for example.

The problem at YYZ is that the international gates at both T1 and T3 are crammed into end-of-pier areas that are far, far too small. Similarly, the individual gate areas are also too small, perhaps because they were designed in an era when much international traffic to Toronto was on ~200-seat 767s. The average per aircraft today is probably close to double.

To make matters worse, the nature of long haul travel in North America is that it’s highly concentrated in the evening for timezone reasons. Sometimes there are 4-5 huge planes boarding simultaneously at adjacent gates. This is not the case in Europe, where international flights basically happen all day. But come to the T1 hammerhead at lunchtime and it’s very quiet, aside from a couple of departures to Asia.

The obvious long-term solution for T1 is to move transborder flights to a new pier, and let international take over the entire central area. But this will of course take years, and I'm not sure how much can be done to alleviate crowding within the current building envelope of T1. Getting rid of the luxury stores, which are nearly always empty, would be one idea I guess.

I don’t really have an opinion on the aesthetics of Vancouver airport (except that I find it very teal!). But what struck me during a recent connection there was how roomy the international concourse felt. Vast, even. There was no sense of being crammed in at all. In fact, if no one told you, you might think it was a bigger airport than YYZ - even though in reality it handles only about half the traffic.

My other pet peeve: we need to have actually useful retail in North American airports instead of this Hudson News nonsense. A pharmacy, a 7-11, a Uniqlo for when you realize you forgot to pack socks. Some Asian hubs are really good at this.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Exactly. If anything, the global trend is away from discrete terminals toward mega-buildings, linked internally by people-movers if necessary. See Doha for example.

The problem at YYZ is that the international gates at both T1 and T3 are crammed into end-of-pier areas that are far, far too small. Similarly, the individual gate areas are also too small, perhaps because they were designed in an era when much international traffic to Toronto was on ~200-seat 767s. The average per aircraft today is probably close to double.

To make matters worse, the nature of long haul travel in North America is that it’s highly concentrated in the evening for timezone reasons. Sometimes there are 4-5 huge planes boarding simultaneously at adjacent gates. This is not the case in Europe, where international flights basically happen all day. But come to the T1 hammerhead at lunchtime and it’s very quiet, aside from a couple of departures to Asia.

The obvious long-term solution for T1 is to move transborder flights to a new pier, and let international take over the entire central area. But this will of course take years, and I'm not sure how much can be done to alleviate crowding within the current building envelope of T1. Getting rid of the luxury stores, which are nearly always empty, would be one idea I guess.

I don’t really have an opinion on the aesthetics of Vancouver airport (except that I find it very teal!). But what struck me during a recent connection there was how roomy the international concourse felt. Vast, even. There was no sense of being crammed in at all. In fact, if no one told you, you might think it was a bigger airport than YYZ - even though in reality it handles only about half the traffic.

My other pet peeve: we need to have actually useful retail in North American airports instead of this Hudson News nonsense. A pharmacy, a 7-11, a Uniqlo for when you realize you forgot to pack socks. Some Asian hubs are really good at this.

Or a closer example - consolidation of the terminals at LaGuardia.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

Alright I guess it's time to use the ignore feature. Not that I should be surprised. The trolling is infantile.

I say something positive about something, and the response from Nate is immediate that I am wrong.

Discussion isn't trolling. But I see you arguing with everyone in several threads now. This is a discussion group. If everyone agreed, there's be little here.

"YVR is the only airport to receive the [SkyTrax] designation of Best Airport in North America 14 times."

Is that the same organization that declared Air Canada was North America's best international airline?

And yeah, having flown between them over 100 times, the bathrooms are remarkably clean (that the opposite would be said about something where that airport specifically does a good job is telling), and consistently better than Pearson.

Did I say Pearson was good? Have you checked out the decrepit wing of the terminal that Porter and Flair are relegated to at Vancouver? It makes the Pearson Terminal 3 satellite look luxurious.

I'm tired of this grass is always greener approach. There's stuff to learn everywhere - including from here to elsewhere. Vancouver's bizarre outdoor walkway to the Canada Line subway station for example. At the same time the public artwork at Vancouver airport is light-years ahead of Toronto. Along with the pre-security food and shopping.

The largest airport in the country for passenger volume (and one of the biggest in North America) having only two terminals is kind of ridiculous to begin with.

The new Terminal 1 at Pearson has more (far more I think) capacity than the old T1 and T2 combined. I thought the trend these days was towards fewer, larger, terminals. Denver is one of the busiest airports in North America - about double Pearson - and has a single terminal. And I was amazed how easy it is to get around! Now there's something we can copy. Presumably that's more like what Pearson would look like if they build the new facility/terminal near Viscount station.

Even older airports that are busies than Pearso like Sea Tac have a single terminal (though oddly they talk about their concourses and satellites like they were their own terminals, even though they are all connected to the main terminal, which is where security is).

If the plan for Pearson around the turn of the millenium had gone through, it would have only a single terminal, with T3 knocked down, and the current T1 simply expanded to fill it. Heck, they could pretty much do it now for cheap just by connecting them - which was never an option with the old T1 and T2.

 

[nstuch]

I find that the security at Pearson is very quick, and as a Nexus user, I have zero wait for the customs, and bags have been unloaded relatively quickly. The downside of arriving at T1 is the verrrrrry long walk from your arrival gate to the passport/customs area.

And as mentioned above, the crowds in the departures areas have been crazy lately. I get that all the retail and restaurants get in the way, but they're not particularly new are they? I don't remember this kind of crowding before. But regardless, the crowding is very real. When I was in Vancouver a couple years ago, I was surprised how organized Air Canada was for boarding. It made me realize that Air Canada in and of itself is not the reason that boarding at Pearson sucks, it's just the airport itself. And to be fair, the airport in Warsaw suffers from similar overcrowding as well, but not quite as bad as the much higher capacity Pearson.

Are they ever going to fix the high speed walkways to the international arrivals/departures? Seems like they've been out of commission for years.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Are they ever going to fix the high speed walkways to the international arrivals/departures? Seems like they've been out of commission for years.

I thought they are removing it?

AoD

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I honestly wonder that with the future Pier H, if Terminal 1 should be retrofitted with some sort of Peoplemover system? With all of the interior rearrangements it has become a trek to get from one part of the airport to another, especially when one is connecting between flights.

Or at least something more formalized than golf carts lol

Another upgrade I support though I wonder how much utility it would have. Obviously a post security connection between T1 and T3 would bring the most benefit, however only the GTAA knows how many connections are made between the two terminals.

At T1 the most annoying connection is between the domestic pier and transborder pier. Again only the GTAA knows how many connections are made between domestic and transborder flights vs domestic to international or transborder to international.

At T3 the worst connection is from Domestic (especially from the satellite gates) to International flights. Though the 1 Km walk might still be faster than waiting for a people mover.

So the simple answer is that a post security people mover is a NICE to have but the cost benefit calculation puts it at the bottom of the list of projects.

 

[kev1n1m]

Yep they're either already removed or planning to be removed. Glad I got one ride on 'em in 2018. The only time they were ever open out of five trips down that pier.

 

[Deadpool X]

I took this photo on Saturday June 14th a couple hours before my flight to Manchester.

View attachment 660403

This was my third time going through Terminal 1 this year. First two trips to London and this one to Manchester. It's been like this every time I go. The first trip I didn't care so much, but by the third trip, the deficiencies of terminal 1 were becoming more obvious to me.

It's also the landing at Pearson that is a disaster. Today, As I was standing in the queue to speak to a CBSA agent, I joked to the people behind me that it's easier for me to enter the U.K. than it is for me to enter my own country of Canada. I stood in line for roughly 10-15 minutes only to be told by a staff member that I didn't need to be line because I was a Canadian citizen. Where as the last time they told me I still had to wait in line and I ended up speaking with a CBSA agent. Even after getting my passport and face scanned and printing off that silly paper slip to hand to the guard after you grab your luggage.

With the U.K.'s new ETA for designated countries(which includes Canada), I just scan my passport, have my face scanned and the gates open up for me and I enter the U.K.. All three trips I never once spoke to a border guard. No paper slips to hand to a guard. It was strange how easy it was for me to walk into another country. It was also rather quick because countries that fall under the U.K.'s ETA program get their own designated line at customs at U.K. airports.

Your experience seems a little different from mine. I always go to the scanners, scan my passport, get a photo clicked, and get a slip and that's it. It's always been a couple of minutes for me for the entire customs and immigration process.